And hear the silence of the feminists 21

From Front Page Magazine:

A gala event has occurred in Gaza.

Hamas sponsored a mass wedding for four hundred and fifty couples. Most of the grooms were in their mid to late twenties; most of the brides were under ten.

Muslim dignitaries including Mahmud Zahar, a leader of Hamas, were on hand to congratulate the couples who took part in the carefully staged celebration.

We are saying to the world and to America that you cannot deny us joy and happiness,” Zahar told the grooms, all of whom were dressed in identical black suits and hailed from the nearby Jabalia refugee camp.

Each groom received a gift of 500 dollars from Hamas.

The pre-pubescent girls, dressed in white gowns and adorned with garish make-up, received bridal bouquets.

We are presenting this wedding as a gift to our people who stood firm in the face of the siege and the war,” local Hamas strongman Ibrahim Salaf said in a speech.

The wedding photos tell the rest of the sordid tale.

PLEASE SEE THE COMMENT BY C.GEE ON THIS POST

Posted under Arab States, Feminism, Islam, Law, Muslims, News, Religion general by Jillian Becker on Tuesday, August 11, 2009

Tagged with , , , , ,

This post has 21 comments.

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  • So, readers, he gave in and fled.

    Thank you, roger in florida, for your support. We won't get our answers because he doesn't know what to say. If one presses these liberals they usually run away.

    • Brian Westley

      “fled”? Uh, no. I see you still have no problem presenting lies in your blog, the only criterion is whether it's “plausable,” not actually true. And when the source of your story says all the wingnuts (including yourself) are wrong, you STILL don't correct the story, you just accuse him of lying.

      You're a complete intellectual coward.

      • C. Gee

        Ah, you're back. You did not notice that the post has been updated with a direction to read my comment, in which it is acknowledged that the little girls are not the brides. Do read it, before the egg on your face congeals.

      • Thank you for leaving another poop on our blog. Either answer our points, or I'll be forced to clean you up.

  • Brian Westley

    I have not anywhere said that the report is true or untrue. I think it is plausible.

    Yeah, well, that's about the intellectual level on your blog. Whether something is true or false isn't important, only whether it's “plausible.”

    Pathetic. You aren't even worth keystrokes at this point. What a totally worthless blog.

  • C. Gee

    Brian Westley,
    I agree that the little girls are not the brides – for many reasons. Hamas has put on several mass weddings to marry off the widows of slain fighters recently in order to beget another generation of shahids. As far as I know this was the first one to have a parade of little girls. The little girls are uncovered and wearing dress and make-up disapproved of by Hamas and they are touching the grooms, none of which is tolerated for women or girls once they are subject to the religious strictures. The true brides are probably the hijab and sack-wearing young women photographed sitting in the crowd. I think that the little-girls were given an important part in the wedding in order to attract Western cameras. More of that below.
    This blog has no interest in spreading lies. It has no need to. The truth about Hamas is bad enough.
    And Jillian Becker's point that lie-spreading is usual practice for pro-Islamist, Hamas supporters, and Israel-bashers is worth repeating every time a false story emerges against Hamas. Fauxtography, Pallywood, blood-libels, poisoned-pollen, infertility-causing chewing gum, Jews inventing AIDS, Mohammed Al-Dura, hoax quotes – the lies are an industry. Very often Western journalists are complicit in the lies. It is interesting to me that the reported stories did not show the actual brides, or talk to them. Of course the visual interest in bundles of cloth sitting in a crowd is not nearly as great as that of cute children holding hands with gentle militants. But I think that they wanted to play down the true brides – who were wearing the uniform of subjugation and were separated according to the rules of subjugation – in order to show Hamas in a positive, fun, Western light. Hamas itself wanted to show the world how Israel could not destroy its spirit. It wanted to spread propaganda about its joyful, life-enhancing role – and the Western reporters obliged. Their spin backfired. When the little girls were thought to be the brides and the gentle militants paedophiles , Hamas was quick to react with denials and photographs of the real wives – covered and segregated – were published. Not such fun.

    It would indeed be a shame if the propaganda use of sexualised little girls is wrongly interpreted as actual paedophilia, thereafter casting doubt on true reports of child-marriage and cruelty to and enslavement of women.

    As for the feminists: you can defend them by pointing to pro forma condemnations from womens' organisations. I am more convinced by their actual writing. Germaine Greer has defended female genital mutilation. Many feminists have supported Islamist apologetics for honor killing. Feminists have consistently condemned Western patriarchy as enslaving women, but elsewhere patriarchy is exonerated on the principle that to condemn would be orientalist (and patriarchal).
    I fear that just as the feminists put politics over principle, so do you in defending them.

    Please do continue to alert us to untrue stories. Skepticism is an ally in the battle against propaganda. If the occasional link to a false story is enough to condemn us as unreliable, then the frequent, deliberate dissemination of propaganda should nullify almost all reporting from Gaza.

  • Name

    name should be “roger in florida”

  • Name

    Brian Westley,
    You can wriggle and slither all you like but what about answering the question the original entry poses: Where are the “feminists” when islamic subjugation of women is exposed?
    Perhaps you think the whole issue is a fraud, perhpas you are unconcerned about what happens to a bunch of “skirts” anyway, useless cows have it coming to them; is that it?
    I would love to have you provide an answer to Ms beckers question: What do you believe in?

  • B.W –

    I have not anywhere said that the report is true or untrue. I think it is plausible.

    I am saying that Western reporters in Gaza and Lebanon have FORFEITED THEIR RIGHT TO BE TRUSTED.

    I am British but I have been living in America (legally) for some years.

    How was what Keith Ellison said different from what I said he said? You make me out to be a consistent liar. Of course, I'll now go into deep self-examination and try to reform and do penance and confess to some ghostly father if I find that it is true.

    We have had thousands of visitors, by the way. Don't go by the number of subscribed readers or comments. Neither is an indication of our popularity. I also blog for Race42012 and for The Freedom Association, neither of which finds me unfair, inaccurate or deliberately deceiving. Some of my books on terrorism have sold by the million and my findings have not been refuted (though I have been personally reviled and threatened for exposing facts about murderous organizations).

    Now why don't you try answering my 'loaded questions'? Or proving that they have no substance?

    Whose side are you on? What have you done to help keep your country safe? Or defend civilized values? Tell me about your military career.

    Who are you? Why does this issue exercise you so much?

    Are you an anti-Semite?

    Is everyone other than a liberal-progressive a 'nut' to you?

    Tell us about your world-view. Your values. Your aspirations. Please do.

  • Brian Westley

    B W – ever heard of Mohammed al-Dura? A French television outfit 'filmed' him being shot by the Israelis. Only not quite. Years and years later a French court found that the the claim made by the film-makers was false, the footage cut to deceive. I could give you many more examples of Western reporters in Gaza (and Lebanon) lying and faking – some to keep their credentials with the terrorists, some (like Fisk) because they were on the side of the terrorists.

    Now all you have to do is show that this is faked.

    What was I doing in years past to fight terrorists? I was giving my life to that very cause.

    Now all you have to do is show that this is faked.

    I never managed to coax any feminists, individually or in groups, though I tried more times than I can remember, to say or write a word about the treatment of women and girls in the Arab and Muslim-African countries. (One murmur about the Taliban does not a significant effort make.)

    How disingenuous of you. I found quite a lot in just a few seconds and only listed one example. But you'd rather mindlessly bash “feminists” as a group.

    And given how you refuse to defend what you list on your blog, it isn't surprising that nobody pays attention to you. It's that “boy who cried wolf” problem, I'd say.

    You've presented nothing to show that the allegations you've reprinted are true. All you've tried to do is say that a person actually connected with creating the footage is lying. Even though the original report (which came out BEFORE all the rightwing wingnuts went nuts) said that the brides were elsewhere. And, somehow, he must be lying, even though if he WAS some kind of bizarro-world Hamas defender, why would they release such footage in the first place?

    But no, you can't even admit that you might be wrong. Everyone else must be lying.

    Austin Cline reviewed your blog a couple years ago and easily uncovered a lie you told about Rep. Keith Ellison, the Muslim congressman from Minnesota. Looks like you haven't changed.

  • Every one of my posts is 'signed' – underneath each one the name of the person who has posted it is given. The story I quoted was from Front Page magazine, with a link so you can read all of it and learn its source.

  • B W – ever heard of Mohammed al-Dura? A French television outfit 'filmed' him being shot by the Israelis. Only not quite. Years and years later a French court found that the the claim made by the film-makers was false, the footage cut to deceive. I could give you many more examples of Western reporters in Gaza (and Lebanon) lying and faking – some to keep their credentials with the terrorists, some (like Fisk) because they were on the side of the terrorists. What was I doing in years past to fight terrorists? I was giving my life to that very cause. With a former British Foreign Minister, Lord Chalfont, I founded and directed the Institute for the Study of Terrorism in London and became a supplier of truthful and accurate information (much tested) to Parliament, the media, the police, the military and the public. In all I spent 25 years dealing with Terrorism, and I or one of my assistants went to most of the 'hot-spots of the Cold War' as we designated those battlefields where Soviet-supported terrorist groups (which means most of them, world-wide until 1990) were 'liberating' local populations. I myself went into the war zones of the Middle East. I sat in a hotel in Beirut listening to British reporters giving false testimony over the phone to their London editors. I heard one report from a rooftop reoprting live that the Israeli Airforce was coming over in droves to bomb the city, when one small plane was actually to be seen flying along the horizon. I never managed to coax any feminists, individually or in groups, though I tried more times than I can remember, to say or write a word about the treatment of women and girls in the Arab and Muslim-African countries. (One murmur about the Taliban does not a significant effort make.)

    Finally: Invective, sir, is no substitute for argument

  • Brian Westley

    And to correct myself, Hamas wouldn't point to this blog as an American lying about them, but a Briton, assuming the unsigned original entry is by Jillian Becker.

  • Brian Westley

    “Brian Westley – There's no reason to believe the Tim Marshall story you link to.”

    Only that he was one of the reporters at the event, where the footage was filmed.

    What “there's no reason to believe” are other websites that took that footage and simply made up stories about what was happening. Where is THEIR information from? They didn't film it, they don't provide translations of what is being said.

    '”The brides are elsewhere'. Where? Why?”

    You might not have noticed, but there's a lot of segregation of sexes in Muslim societies.

    “Nothing that can be said about Hamas can be bad enough.”

    Sorry, that doesn't justify spreading lies.

    “No imagination could tell an untruth about it worse that the truth. It is an appalling murderous organization.”

    Guess what? That STILL doesn't justify spreading lies. In fact it's worse, as Hamas can point your blog and try to gain sympathetic followers by stating “Americans are spreading lies about us, so you can't believe anything they say (including anything bad that might be true)” It's crying wolf, which can be taken advantage of.

    “Many Muslim girls are forced to marry in their pre-pubescent years. That is a fact.”

    I suggest you write a blog entry that uses facts.

    “answer this if you can:

    Why are the feminists silent about the extreme suffering and subjugation of Muslim women?”

    Well, I can't answer it, since it's a typical dishonest debating tactic of a loaded question. Your question forces me to assume that feminists ARE silent, which isn't true. But facts aren't your strong suit.

    “Why does the left in general excuse or even outrightly align itself with Islam when the causes it claims to stand for are fiercely opposed by Islam – most obviously women's liberation and gay liberation?”

    Another loaded question.

    “Do you think that would disprove all the truth told about subjugation of women in the islamic world “

    Of course not.

    “Where are the “feminists”, who rail against the supposed injustices of anglo society, protesting about the slavery and subjugation of women in islamic society.”

    Gee, here's something I found in a few seconds that's over 10 years old:
    http://www.now.org/nnt/fall-98/global.html

    Under the rule of the fundamentalist Taliban, women in Afghanistan
    continue to be deprived of basic human rights. On July 21, NOW and
    other feminist activists in Washington, D.C., Los Angeles and Houston
    protested against any U.S. support of the Taliban.

    What were YOU doing 11 years ago to fight the Taliban?

    “We take it as a given that islamic culture is abominable, as is any culture that promotes ignorance, subjugation and slavery.”

    Well, this website opts for ignorance, at least.

    “Perhaps your objections are so focused on”rightwing wingnuts” that you don't understand what a cesspool islamism is. Hamas is a great example of that cesspool.”

    I'm no fan of Hamas, but spreading lies doesn't help either.

  • roger in florida

    Brian Westley:
    Let us assume you are correct; this story is false. (I don't believe it is, this is absolutely typical islamic behaviour).
    Do you think that would disprove all the truth told about subjugation of women in the islamic world, if so you cannot have spent much time in islamic countries. Where are the “feminists”, who rail against the supposed injustices of anglo society, protesting about the slavery and subjugation of women in islamic society.
    We take it as a given that islamic culture is abominable, as is any culture that promotes ignorance, subjugation and slavery. Perhaps your objections are so focused on”rightwing wingnuts” that you don't understand what a cesspool islamism is. Hamas is a great example of that cesspool.

  • Furthermore, Brian Westley, answer this if you can:

    Why are the feminists silent about the extreme suffering and subjugation of Muslim women?

    Why does the left in general excuse or even outrightly align itself with Islam when the causes it claims to stand for are fiercely opposed by Islam – most obviously women's liberation and gay liberation?

  • Brian Westley – There's no reason to believe the Tim Marshall story you link to. 'The brides are elsewhere'. Where? Why? Why are these little girls in bridal dresses?

    Nothing that can be said about Hamas can be bad enough. No imagination could tell an untruth about it worse that the truth. It is an appalling murderous organization.

    Many Muslim girls are forced to marry in their pre-pubescent years. That is a fact.

    Islamophobia = fear of Islam. Doesn't Islam want the world of infidels to be afraid of it?

  • Brian Westley

    Two points:

    1) this “story” is false. Those girls are not the brides:
    http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:d

    2) ironic that a rightwing wingnut blog would use a story like this NOT to rail against underage marriage, but to preemptively complain about how unnamed 'feminists' are not protesting! In other words, when presented with a supposed case of girls being forced into underage marriage, all the author does with it is use it as a strawman attack against 'feminists.' Pathetic.

  • Alejandro

    This is obviously a very important event for the Palestinians. We in the west must strive to understand this deep and different culture. We must not disparage them as you did in this “post.” By accepting this event, we actually show our tolerance and demonstrate that our values are higher.

  • aeschines

    Just a reminder – these people believe that they are fully justified in doing this. Remember that Muhammed himself took a 6 year old girl as a bride and “knew” her at 9. Keep in mind this was his THIRD wife – taken when he was over 50 years old. This evil is rooted in this religion itself, people. When the hell is everybody going to recognize this?

  • roger in florida

    What an absolutely appalling event. This is child slavery and sexual exploitation of the most disgusting kind. You ask where are the feminists; where are any of our so called leaders on this. And don't think this is only happening in Gaza, it is happening in Birmingham, Burnley, Liecester and anywhere else this foul religion is practised.