Why is the Iranian dwarf taunting the American giant? 57

Wednesday night, the Iranian parliament began drafting a bill prohibiting foreign warships from entering the Gulf without Tehran’s permission. …  Saudi Arabia has warned the Obama administration that Iranian leaders mean what they say; their leaders are bent on provoking a military clash with the United States at a time and place of their choosing, rather than leaving the initiative to Washington. To this end, Iranian officials are ratcheting up their belligerence day after day.

If this report is accurate, either Iran is eager to be at war with the United States, or the mullahs do not believe that anything they do will put them in danger of military retaliation by the Obama administration:

The armies of Saudi Arabia and fellow Gulf Cooperation Council states stood ready Thursday Jan. 5, for Washington to stand up to Iranian threats and send an aircraft carrier or several warships through the Strait of Hormuz into the Persian Gulf. Riyadh has been leaning hard on the Obama administration not to let Tehran get away with its warning to react with “full force” if the USS Stennis aircraft carrier tried to reenter the Gulf or Iran’s pretensions to control the traffic transiting the world’s most important oil route. …

America’s failure to rise to Iran’s challenge will confirm its rulers in the conviction that the US is a paper tiger and encourage them to press their advantage for new gains.

The assessment of British military experts was that the question now is: Who will blink first? Will the US follow through on the Pentagon’s assertion that the deployment of US military assets in the Persian Gulf will continue as it has for decades? Or will Iran act on its warnings and block those waters to the entry of American warships?

President Barack Obama can’t afford to cave in to Iran, especially while campaigning for reelection in Nov. 2012; Tehran, for its part, has made too many threats to easily back down. The entire region is now on tenterhooks for the next move, with US, Iranian and Gulf armies on the highest war alert. American and Iranian war planners both accept that their advantage lies in surprising the enemy – without, however, catapulting the Persian Gulf into a full-dress war.

How that trick can be pulled off we eagerly wait to see.

What if the mullahcracy of Iran were to learn in the very near future that not only is the Twelfth Imam not about to return and make the whole world Islamic, but instead they have been bombed into the 21st century? It could mean the beginning of the end of Islam. And who knows but that tens or even hundreds of millions of Muslims long for a force majeure to shoot them into the light of the present day? 

In anarchic Libya, militias are engaged in a power struggle with each other. In Egypt the religious parties are engaged in a power struggle with the militaryTo what extent, we wonder, is the “Arab Spring” a struggle between those who want to enter the modern world as shaped by the West and those who want to remain in the unchanging darkness of the Islamic past?

We think that if Iran were hit so hard now that all its nuclear and military installations were incapacitated  –  by Israel or the United States, better still by both acting together – not only would the threat of nuclear attack from that belligerent country be averted, but the strike would send a shock wave through every Islamic state, every mosque, every terrorist group, and the heart of every West-hating Muslim. It could halt, or at the very least strongly discourage, every form of jihad, violent or stealthy, open or insidious.

The Muslim world would stand appalled.

It would be the victory for civilization that civilization urgently needs.

Is Obama – the pro-Islam weakling in charge of the American giant – likely to hit Iran? Not willingly. But maybe force majeure is about to move him too.

  • George

    In reply to un
     
     First of all , your allegations of secularists on this website wanting to go nuke Muslims are false . No one on this site called for any nuclear strike on Muslims .  My statement was that if Iran should use a nuke on the USA , that the USA would retaliate in kind and reciprocate the original offense. Secondly no one on this site said anything about killing any Muslims in general whatsoever. Our comments were speaking about defensive strikes against those terrorist attacks upon us—-plain & simple.      I have NO desire to harm any Muslim person who does not engage in any terrorists attack or life-threatening act upon others  or jeopardizes my life/safety——-again , plain and simple.   Furthermore your first post on this site in itself had a threatening tone and you were the one indeed who started posting off topic ( which by dictionary is the tactic that defines a troll .   The original abbrasive comments indeed started with you , not us.  
                 To reiterate regarding OFF TOPIC , this article was about an American aircraft carrier group that was departing the Gulf of Hormuz after an extensive patrol of that waterway. Then Iran began making threats and demands telling America that the USA had better not bring the carrier back.   The carrier NEVER entered any waters of Iran but was there to make sure that shipping channel remained open.
                              Then you changed the subject and began harping on the subject of ALGEBRA.   What does  [algebra] have to do with an aircraft carrier patrolling a massive waterway ? Where’s the connection ? Connect the dots.    You can’t   The subject of ALGEBRA has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.  Let me repeat the title of this article in question again—-    [  ” Why is the Iranian dwarf taunting the American giant ? ”  ] .     Translation —— :    Why is a small “third world” nation ( specifically Iran ) making threats to a ( or rather THE ) world superpower –America ? ”      Sounds plain , straightforward and simple to me  .     That’s a question . Therefore ALL subsequent comments ( pro or con ) should have been in regards to THAT specific question and topic and NOTHING else .  That sounds plain and simple enough to me . All these other UNRELATED comments and topics have absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the article.  Stay focused on the topic—nothing else. 
                             If the topic of the article had been —— ” What group was responsible for inventing algebra ” , then fine , let’s discuss that in detail and present available data, documentation , as well as verifiable, and substantiated proof.  HOWEVER  —- that was NOT the topic or subject of discussion in the first place.  When you first posted here , you were offensive with your comments and I will be the first to concede and admit that I did indeed get  pissed off and posted angry and hot-headed replies in response.  All of that could have been  avoided from the beginning by simply staying on topic and explaining why you agree or disagree with the topic or article ( or both ) with a tactful response and all subsequent replies would have been likewise.    
                          Oh and for  The Atheist Conservative audience , staff and commentors , my apologies for language & hot-headed comments responding in anger—as  I have stated before , that is not my style.     Now having said that ( and in total sincerity ) if you wish to discuss the subject of the carrier group in the Gulf of Hormuz , the comments by Iran and the responding comments by America and discuss in a civil manor then we can indeed have a productive dialogue. I’ll leave it up to you. The commenters on this site know I am honest and straightforward  and this message is addressing everyone in all totality.

  • Jillian Becker

    un-

    You are welcome to join in a debate on our pages, to argue a case, to supply information, to say why you disagree with a post or a comment. But you seem to have come on to our pages mainly to insult other writers. If everything we believe and stand for is so hateful to you, wouldn’t you be happier reading and commenting on some other website? Abusing us as you do will not persuade us to change our minds. It will confirm for us that you are not a very civilized human being.  

    • un

      it’s not what you stand for, which particularly bothers me, it’s the fact that you seem to have an ever shifting belief system depending on the outcome for the group you associate with.

      you can’t be for and against terrorism at once. you can’t complain about islamic terrorism while supporting terrorism against muslims. you can’t be for and against civilization at once. you can’t complain about inhumane treatment of people by muslims and defend the inhumane treatment of muslims. it’s this heavy stench of hypocrisy that drives me to write as aggressively as i do, not your belief system as you think.

      if there is another website you know of where i should challenge hypocrisy and double standards, i’d be happy to know about it.

      • George

        Un , please read my post of a few minutes ago.   I can’t speak for others , but I certainly do not subscribe to any terrorism upon Muslims.    But it is indeed a true fact that terrosism by Muslims are indeed spreading around thw rorld and it’s growing and the world is indeed in fear and justifiably so.   It’s called jihad . Check the count of terrorist acts by Muslims posted on the site .  18305 Muslim terrorist acts commited as of today January 17, 2012 and those are only the ones we know of and have documented.  Put yourself in our shoes ——————how would you feel if the situation was in reverse?   Be honest———-how would you felel ?  The question that world wants to know if where is the massive public outcry denouncing terrorism by the majority of Muslims who proclaim that they do not agree with violence or terrorism ?  That’s a question that I  have never seen answered.  Apparently , you have this false mindset , that this website is just a bunch of haters who want to see all Muslims nuked .  Believe it or not , I do indeed have Muslim friends and while I do not embrace their beliefs , they treat me with respect and I in tuirn treat them with respect. We get along just fine and there has nvere been an unkind word spoken EVER !   By the same token , I don’t agree with the beliefs of Christians,  Jews, Scientologists, Hindus, Shintos , Taoists, Wiccans , Buddhists , etc.      Since I am indeed an honest person , I admite I did get angr and used terms like “raghead  camel jockies” out of anger.   But after reading your comments about Jews being parasitic zionists and how you all use to have our women as whores ( or something to that effect )—-what did you  expect  ?    To take it a step further in total honesty —we on this website don’t agree with all atheists ( secular freethinkers ) either. That’s why we’re called Conservative Atheists . 

        • un

          “but I certainly do not subscribe to any terrorism upon Muslims.”
          does that include the rational calculation of the consequences of your actions as you drop a thousand pound bomb on a convoy you suspect of being insurgents, knowing full well that there is a real chance you might be killing innocent people but still go “what the hell, lets do it”?
          it’s like clinton bombing the only pharmaceutical plant in sudan, causing the death of hundreds of thousands of sudanese people as a result, knowing full well the consequences but still having the arrogance to take the chance with other people’s lives.

          “18305 Muslim terrorist acts commited as of today January 17, 2012 and those are only the ones we know of and have documented.”
          since you define muslim terrorist acts as acts of terror committed by muslims, you can have a much higher figure by adding acts of terror committed by christians, such as the bombing off fallujah with depleted uranium shells, such as the downing of an iranian passenger jet by a u.s. navy warship etc. more importantly, the number at hand is statistically meaningless as even acts with no fatal consequences can be covered under that description while the downing of the iranian passenger jet which cost hundreds of lives will be chalked up as one.

          “Put yourself in our shoes ——————how would you feel if the situation was in reverse?”
          i suggest the next time you see iraqi and palestinian mothers and daughters crying over their children killed by american and israeli bombs, you do the same.

          ” The question that world wants to know if where is the massive public
          outcry denouncing terrorism by the majority of Muslims who proclaim that
          they do not agree with violence or terrorism ?”
          that’s bullshit. it was under your military occupation that foreigner sunni terrorists flocking to iraq killed and maimed thousands of shias. it took iran’s assistance to put an end to that bloodshed and you have the nerve to make the claim that muslims don’t condone terrorism? iran helped put an end to that terror campaign.

          “But after reading your comments about Jews being parasitic zionists and
          how you all use to have our women as whores ( or something to that
          effect )—-what did you  expect  ?”

          correction, i said the israeli citizens are parasites. it’s not a big secret that israel has been riding the guilt gravy train since before it’s formation. the latter comment was directed at the people who are indeed wishing for a clash of civilizations, encouraged by the perceived economic and military superiority of the western world and fueled on by the hatred of the other, be it religiously or racially motivated.

      • George

        You say in your last post addressed to me  that what I stated was BS , well that statement in itself is BS.  In war , you do indeed have inncocent people who get hurt and even killed but the difference with the US is that THEY are not the intended targets.     The terrorists  who are engaging our troops are dressed as civilians –so how would anyone know if they are civilian or otherwise. Furthermore the terrorists are not members of a formed authentic government armed forces wearing uniforms –but rather they are indeed themselves CITIZENS who are engaged in the terrorists acts. How is it possible to tell the difference ?  That’s an impossibility.   The terrorists  hide behind women and children when the American forces shoot back knowing that innocent women and children  ( their own which they sacrifice ) will be killed and then they point fingers at the US and allies with the expression of ” look what you did ” mentality and accusations. 
                                   Whenever innocent citizens do become casualities , the US is accountable for it but the terrorists  who attack our and other foreign citizens target and go for specifically  the innocent civilians themselves and then boast of it and cheer about it are .   There has never been a   “dancing in the streets” celebration by American troops if any innocent civilians who  are injured or killed.   That’s the difference .   
                                  It’s apparent by your very first hostile presentation right from your very first post that you never had any intent of engaging in discource or dialogue or to simply make your point ut rather and orchestrated effort to disrupt the discussion forum and sabotage the dialogue.  
                                 Personally , I wish the US and it’s allies had never gone into the Middle East to begin with   and especially this crazy act of giving away tens of billions of dollars of US taxpayer money to people who hate us and want to kill us. That in itself is the craziest thing imaginable. If those in the Middle East want to go to war with each other, let em , as long as they don’t bring their disputes elsewhere around the world. Personally I’m tired of the US trying to be the world’s policeman for people who later “spit” on us afterwards —-especially after we have lost thousands of American lives , limbs, and trillions in American dollars casting us further into outrageous debt for ungrateful people who later turn on us .   They want our help and assistance and then they go back to the same “business as usual” [ which includes hating America ]—which is the epitome of double-standard hypocrisy.

        • un1.1

          “inncocent people who get hurt and even killed but the difference with the US is that THEY are not the intended targets. ”

          nonsense… is the person targeting them aware of the possible consequences of his actions? most certainly yes. is this therefore a deliberate action with full recognition of the possible outcome? yes. as a consequence, are the civilians targeted with intent? hell yes.

          “How is it possible to tell the difference ?  That’s an impossibility.”

          if you can’t tell the difference, don’t pull the trigger. if you pull the trigger, accept the fact that you’re no better than the terrorists. 

          “There has never been a   “dancing in the streets” celebration by American troops if any innocent civilians who  are injured or killed.”

          how about OBL? has he been found guilty by any independent court? technically, he was innocent. 

          “effort to disrupt the discussion forum and sabotage the dialogue.”

          you mean the monologue, where you all nodded and agreed to hate the specific people you hate?

          “limbs, and trillions in American dollars casting us further into outrageous debt for ungrateful people who later turn on us”

          you can’t call people ungrateful if they haven’t asked for your help in the first place. can you cite me an afghan poll who was in favor of u.s. invasion?

      • George

        If terrorists who are dressed as civilians start firing at tropps and then the troops return fire and fire back and then the terrorists hide behind their women and children and sacrifice them , and then blame ths US troops in their deaths is not a matter of ” don’t pull the triger” . They ( US troops ) are not suppose to be “sitting ducks ” and allow themselves to be target practice .  None of the terrosists are wearing uniforms so they camoflauge themselves by blending into the general populace.
                        Furthermore , this website is NOT a monologue and many people have posted opposing opinions , views and comments but your hostile demeanor is what is out of line. You started all this from the very first post you made on this discusssion forum  and you did it and are  still doing it to be antagonistic , provocative ,  , inflammatory and  disruptive.    No one has any problem with you posting opposing viewpoints or comments or explaining why you disagree as it is specifically your  demeanor which is the issue, but you will never admit it.  

  • George

    TROLL ALERT    TROLL ALERT    TOLL ALERT   TROLL ALERT  TROLL ALERT

                        This person “un”  is nothing but a racist bigot hate-mongering lying propaganda spreading troll bent on trying to sabotage this website.     He has not contributed to anything substantive or for that matter–TRUTHFULL.  
                  It’s all an orchestrated ploy to discredit this website which displays accurate news stories that have been censored or downplayed in other mainstream forms of media. His lies and deciet are staggering.     This is how trolls get their “kicks”  and their “jollies”.  There is no dialogue or discourse  as his only intent is to  disrupt and sabotage the discussion forum with his perpetual harrassing commentary.  The claims he is making are overwhelmingly if not totally BS and he knows it but his dubious agenda propells him to continue.
                     The insults by this loser are clearly from a “sick” mind and is a result of the typical   ” Trolls-R-Us ” mindset.  Arguing with a braindead troll individual like him is futile because they feed on it  and they get their thrills from it.    Going “back & forth” in some “pissing contest” or “bickering match” with him is a waste of time and effort . He is doing it intentionally to sabotage the website discussion forum and to disrupt the civil dialogue and discourse.  Understand that and don’t let this wacko get to you which is precisely what he is trying to do. Don’t fall for it.   I laugh at stupidity , ignorance, and hateful bigotry like that of his.   Remember the old saying—————  [  DON’T FEED THE TROLLS     ].

    • un

      “This person “un”  is nothing but a racist bigot hate-mongering lying propaganda spreading”

      claim one – racist

      quoting George
      “…you raghead camel jockey dessert rat”
      “…f***yourself and the f***ing camel you rode on”
      “…you towel-heads will get a taste of the wrath of America”
      “…I suggest you camel riding ragheads over there don’t f**k with America”
      “”Furthermore you can go f*** yourself and go stick your head up a camel’s ASS and shut the f*** up dammit !!!!”

      claim two – bigot

      quoting George
      “Everywhere that Muslims go around the world , murder, mayhem ,violence , and chaos follows”
      “Everywhere Muslims go it’s always murder , murder, murder, murder,  and destruction.”
      “You live to kill. You live to hate. You live to torture . You live to destroy”

      claim three – propaganda spreading

      quoting George
      “Why would Iran need a nuclear facility when there is no advanced infrastructure in Iran ? There is no manufacturing industry there.”
      “President AhminaNUTJOB wants to build a nuclear weapon with the first
      intent to use against  Israel. He even declard that he wants israel
      wiped out and refuses to accept israe’s right to exist.”

      and some more gems from George
      “No one on this website ( staff or commentors ) has ever threatened anyone and we are NOT about to start now.”

      on the same reply that he typed
      “One of our ICBM’s could turn the entire Middle East into a giant crater…”
      “…those virgins that you seek so much wiill be granted by the USA military.”

      and further comments from other participants who allegedly never threatened anyone
      “Un…let’s meet.  I’d like to take a sharp item and open you up from
      groin through yopur lower jaw…so I can see inside what makes up
      persian fecal matter!”
      “I look foward to seeing you andd your kind being the 3rd receipient of the bomb.”
      “there will never be a second chance…pre-emption if necessary.  But,
      if  we mess up and you 5xs-a-day rug soilers do get through…the whole
      lot of you will be wip[ed from the face of this earth…count on it.”
      “Nothing will coax such a stubborn ignorance from its dreary seat besides
      a blindingly bright Enlightenment or a blindingly bright nuclear bomb. I
      dearly hope it’s the former, but I’m prepared for the latter if need be.”
      ” If there comes a war between the West and the Islamic world, and
      the West wins this war by might of its weaponry, perhaps we might be
      able to facilitate an actual dialogue with the post-Islamic world…”
      “…but instead they have been bombed into the 21st century?”
      “We think that if Iran were hit so hard now that all its nuclear and
      military installations were incapacitated  –  by Israel or the United
      States…”

      YOU STAND CORRECTED AND THIS IS ONLY THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG!!!

      • George

        Show me where people of other western societies  or  for that matter secularists in particular are engaging in such behaviors. You can’t !  So I’m NOT the one who stands corrected –but you will never admit such.   No secularists  is going around engaging in ANY act of violence or terror anywhere . Name one incident . Just one. You can’t , because there isn’t any.  So if you’re done trolling , go pester someone else who is dumb enough to fall for that rubbish.  The first post that you made on here was in itself an attack , so therefore as I stated previously —the initiated bigotry started with yourself –not us.  
                        Furthermore this article was solely about Iran taunting the USA because of an American carrier group patrolling the Strait of Hormuz.  Absolutely NOTHING that you have posted on here addresses that topic –but rather EVERYTHING that you have posted has been OFF TOPIC and systematic ad hominem attacks that have absolutely NOTHING to do  with the article TOPIC in question.  Certainly doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.  You’re  ranting & raving about non-related issues that have absolutely nothing to do with  the article topic itself.  You can’t even stick with the subject at hand  but rather you twist the issue by changing the subject discussion as a ploy of intentional deception on your part—— but then again you will never admit it.  But this is what I would expect from trolling behavior. I’m not surprised. It’s typical.  I have YET to see you post a comment about the  TITLE subject itself.  Let’s see–what’s wrong with this picture ?   STAY ON TOPIC————  GOT IT ?    Of course you don’t — and you never will   !!!!

        • un

          “No secularists  is going around engaging in ANY act of violence or terror anywhere .”

          you have the authors of this blog calling for the death and destruction of iranian society, supporting the abuse of prisoners in abu ghraib. do you really need more evidence than that?

          you have the commentators on this blog calling for using nuclear weapons against muslims, justifying the use of force against unarmed civilians. do you really need more evidence than that?

          your behavior is no different than a dogmatic religious zealot, you will not listen to evidence, you’re convinced in your beliefs as a result of your prejudice against a group of people whom you consider to be enemies collectively and you will stop at nothing to destroy them until you no longer feel threatened by them. i think this pattern is more similar to how a national socialist viewed the jews after world war 2 than what is to be expected of people who have a basic understanding of history and sociology.  i suggest you read a book written by chris hedges titled “why i don’t believe in atheists”.

          “Absolutely NOTHING that you have posted on here addresses that topic”

          i addressed the comments of the people and the article. you can see me using quotations often just to be specific about what i was replying to. this accusation is baseless on it’s surface. more importantly, i have been making the conscious effort to enlighten you and your pals on what truly motivates iranian foreign policy, which is extremely vital and primal to the topic t hand, yet all you do is get upset and hurl insults at me for doing so, because you know just as well as i do that your cartoonish version of events don’t hold up to scrutiny.

          had you ever reevaluated your simplistic view of iran-us relations we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. anyway, all i can do for you is to suggest you do some reading, robert baer, stephen kinzer, hillary mann-leverett are just a few that comes to mind.

      • I try my best not to use my words in feces-flinging contests, but you are seriously testing my patience.

        You came onto this discussion form respectfully enough, disagreeing with our conclusions but not obnoxiously. However, I was surprised that you primarily identified yourself by your race. Since reading this, I am cursing myself for not paying enough attention to this, since you evidently view the world through a heavily racialized lens. Despite your love of the term “cracker”, not everybody here is even white! More importantly, why does our skin color or ancestry matter so much to you? Humans are 99.7% similar to each other at the DNA level and can breed with any member of the species. We are all mutts, and I am a proud mutt.

        I am also a proud individualist. I recognize heroes as individuals where credit is due no matter where they came from. It’s futile whether a Muslim or a Christian or a pagan formed algebra because that person’s achievements illuminate everybody in humanity. The achievements of الخروارزمي, Diophantus, and many others gave us modern algebra, and others are certain to add to that knowledge yet. That being said, I also recognize villains for their destruction – a failed painter named Adolf Hitler had an ambition to eradicate the Jews from Europe, while a failed merchant named محمد cajoled a group of followers with messages of goodwill only to engage them in a still-active jihad 13 years later. What civilizations they founded quickly plunged into the depths of ideological ignorance or were destroyed.

        You are welcome to continue commenting here, but remember that we are here to engage in discussion, not ad hominems. Surprisingly, we have disagreements all the time, but don’t be too surprised if we ignore your obvious vitriol from now on.

        • un

          “However, I was surprised that you primarily identified yourself by your
          race. Since reading this, I am cursing myself for not paying enough
          attention to this, since you evidently view the world through a heavily
          racialized lens.”

          i view the world through a rationalized lens. how do you explain the fact that people of white european origin in the united states,  despite having a long history of hating each other’s guts in europe have come to form a social class which identifies itself as white and work collectively and constantly to advance the interests of their own while undermining what they seem to be for the interests of the other racial groups, be they black, latino, middle eastern or asian origin?

          don’t you think it’s also understandable for someone to identify as an iranian and argue for iranic peoples to work together to pursue their interests. after all, of the ethnic groups in the middle east indo-iranian speaking peoples are the most dispersed and disorganized which makes it very difficult to protect themselves from foreign aggression, be it from global or regional players. this is why kurdish oil could be exploited by the iraqi arabs for the past century and pashtuns could be used as pawns by the pakistani/saudi alliance against the soviets.

          “We are all mutts, and I am a proud mutt.”

          i think you misunderstood me and upon reviewing my own writings, i realize that’s largely my fault for not making myself more clear. i don’t believe i am genetically superior to anyone because of my heritage. i do, however, have a sense of history which includes my ancestors achieving a great deal when they were united linguistically and culturally, sharing a common set of laws. as a result of the geographical location that iranian peoples inhabit, wars and occupation from east (mongloid, turkic) and west(hellenistic, arabic) have caused there to be a great rift which is a common cause of our miseries today.

          “It’s futile whether a Muslim or a Christian or a pagan formed algebra
          because that person’s achievements illuminate everybody in humanity.”

          well, the reason why you can be such comfortable in expressing this opinion is because your people’s achievements haven’t been constantly put down and suppressed by others. whether it’s the concentrated efforts during arabic invasion of persia or turkic invasion of kurdistan, whether it’s the latter eurocentric revisionist reading of the greco-persian interactions causing the classicists to create a mythical link between the greeks and western europeans (whom the greeks called barbarians) my culture and it’s achievements, including the islamic period, have been under constant attack. so forgive me if i do fucking care about taking credit for one of the rare mathematical geniuses of the medieval times.

          “Surprisingly, we have disagreements all the time, but don’t be too
          surprised if we ignore your obvious vitriol from now on.”

          considering the vast amount of evidence i provided of your (since you identified as “we”) poisonous vitriol, you should also direct that accusation at others for the sake of intellectual consistency.

      • George

        First of all , your allegations of secularists on this website wanting to go nuke Muslims are false . No one on this site called for any nuclear strike on Muslims .  My statement was that if Iran should use a nuke on the USA , that the USA would retaliate in kind and reciprocate the original offense. Secondly no one on this site said anything about killing any Muslims in general whatsoever. Our comments were speaking about defensive strikes against those terrorist attacks upon us—-plain & simple.      I have NO desire to harm any Muslim person who does not engage in any terrorists attack or life-threatening act upon others  or jeopardizes my life/safety——-again , plain and simple.   Furthermore your first post on this site in itself had a threatening tone and you were the one indeed who started posting off topic ( which by dictionary is the tactic that defines a troll .   The original abbrasive comments indeed started with you , not us.  
                     To reiterate regarding OFF TOPIC , this article was about an American aircraft carrier group that was departing the Gulf of Hormuz after an extensive patrol of that waterway. Then Iran began making threats and demands telling America that the USA had better not bring the carrier back.   The carrier NEVER entered any waters of Iran but was there to make sure that shipping channel remained open.
                                  Then you changed the subject and began harping on the subject of ALGEBRA.   What does  [algebra] have to do with an aircraft carrier patrolling a massive waterway ? Where’s the connection ? Connect the dots.    you can’t   The subject of ALGEBRA has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.  Let me repeat the title of this article in question again—-    [  ” Why is the Iranian dwarf taunting the American giant ? ”  ] .     Translation —— :    Why is a small “third world” nation ( specifically Iran ) making threats to a ( or rather THE ) world superpower –America ? ”      Sounds plain , straightforward and simple to me  .     That’s a question . Therefore ALL subsequent comments ( pro or con ) should have been in nreghards to THAT specific question and topic and NOTHING else .  That sounds plain and simple enough to me . All these other UNRELATED comments and topics have absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the article.  Stay focused on the topic—nothing else. 
                                 If the topic of the article had been —— ” What group was responsible for inventing algebra ” , then fine , let’s discuss that in detail and present available data, documentation , as well as verifiable, and substantiated proof.  HOWEVER  —- that was NOT the topic or subject of discussion in the first place.  When you first posted here , you were offensive with your comments and I will be the first to concede and admit that I did indeed get  pissed off and posted angry and hot-headed replies. All of that could have between  avoided from the beginning by simply staying on topic and explaining why you agree or disagree with the topic or article ( or both ) with a tactful response and all subsequent replies would have been likewise.    
                              Oh and for  The Atheist Conservative audience , staff and commentors , my apologies for language & hot-headed comments responding in anger—as  I have stated before , that is not my style.     Now having said that ( and in total sincerity ) if you wish to discuss the subject of the carrier group in the Gulf of Hormuz , the comments by Iran and the responding comments by America and discuss in a civil manor then we can indeed have a productive dialogue. I’ll leave it up to you. The commenters on this site know I am honest and straightforward  and this message is addressing everyone in all totality.

    • Liz

      Exactly right. It is a total waste of time to try to reason with a brain-dead sack of crap.

  • un

    another reply to the ignoramus Don L

    “explain your governmental model and how it’s economic system would work.”
    well, asshole… lets start, or better yet, stop with the exploitation of cheap labor in the third world countries where workers have no rights as your government pressures their government on behalf of the corporations it represents. lets continue with understanding the root cause of the capitalist system being inherently self-destructive so that every once in a while socialist policies have to be implemented to keep the sinking ship afloat. lets end with 50000 people dying in u.s. every year as a direct result of lack of healthcare.

    “We have messed it up.  So expound…how would your government work to
    assure individual rights.  How would your economy function to sustain
    scarce resources and assure a rational distribution of goods and
    services?”
    individual rights are a non-issue in real politics. politics is about what’s right for the society, period. freedom of speech, when exercised to create healthy debate over issues is acceptable, not so much when it’s invoked for pornographic images being broadcast on a daily basis without so much as a filtering. as far as the distribution of goods is concerned, any society is obliged to provide a minimal standard of living to all of it’s members. wage slavery should be abolished. a decentralized communal ownership of the means of production to create a level playing field should provide for a much more competitive society. all of which are major shortcomings of capitalism and liberal democracies, hence the recurrent problems of income inequality, lack of healthcare, homelessness etc. one thing you were correct on, you messed up.

    “Bet you can’t do it F__kface, loudmouth!”
    bet you feel like an idiot right now. of course, you should always feel what you are, but you rarely do given how you insist on the idea that you know jack shit.

    • Don L

      What a bottom sliding ignorant dumbass you are.
       
      You can’t answer the question.  You’re going to start answering by spewing propaganda.  Not an answer.
       
      So, what are the root causes of the capitalistic system that are self-destructing…come on asshole list them.  You can’t because you don’t know them. 
       
      Show me any proof of 50,000 people dying because of healthcare?  Prove it.  Photos from newspapers?  You’ve been listening to the lies of socialist…we have them here too.  But what they and you don’t have is truth…just the lies that appeal to empty bheads like yours.
       
      So, individual rights don’t matter…hmmm…only what’s good for society.  Hey, sounds like the Soviet system.  It didn’t work. China is going capitalistic.  Oh free speech is only acceptable whern you and tou’re type decide it’s OK…wow…fredom rings.
       
      “individual rights are a non-issue in real politics. politics is about what’s right for the society, period. freedom of speech, when exercised to create healthy debate over issues is acceptable, not so much when it’s invoked for pornographic images being broadcast on a daily basis without so much as a filtering. as far as the distribution of goods is concerned, any society is obliged to provide a minimal standard of living to all of it’s members. wage slavery should be abolished. a decentralized communal ownership of the means of production to create a level playing field should provide for a much more competitive society. all of which are major shortcomings of capitalism and liberal democracies, hence the recurrent problems of income inequality, lack of healthcare, homelessness etc. one thing you were correct on, you messed up.”
       
      All of this is the dream of a foolish idiotic jerk.  You still haven’t answered the question.  distribution of goods and services…how would this be accomplished?  Merely saying a society must provide a minimum of goods and services doesn’t tell how the government would determine this process.  What minimum services and goods?  Who makes/provides them?  What color, size, shape, production process, on and on with simple production questions?  Does a committe decide these things?  Decentralized communal ownership…say, how does that work.  Is it that old you you work hard so I don’t have to deal?  That never got traction anywhwere.  Ever seen a russian or soviet block vehicle?  Ever seen the soviet union feed itself?  So far not one idea of yours is viable…done in all manner and fashion and failed.
       
      Wage slavery…provide minimal standard of living…who does all this providing?..why would they do it? 
       
      Wanting it done, playing “should” be done…uis why all the socialist government interference fails…including in the USof A.  We are working hard right now to get rid of the socialists that crept in with complacency ovwer the last 70 years.  Actually, we hope you adopt the same government style we are trying to get rid of.  It broke us…it will break you.  Oh, you already have taht system.
       
      But continuing, you can only present ideas that have already failed and you don’t know what capitalism is. Under capitalism, the only way to gain wealth is by satisfying consumer (the people) wants and needs.  Wealth by any other means is either theft or by government economic interference (not capitalism) which is also theft.  Here go download and read this…it’s free:
       
      http://teapartyeconomics.com/files/Download/003%20Economic%20Policy%20-%20Thoughts%20for%20Today%20and%20Tomorrow%20-%20Ludwig%20von%20Mises.pdf
       
      You are merely a stupid communistic jerk.  You have no clue about what you speak/type.  grow up…learn something. 
       
      You failed to answer any question.  you have merely spewed false propaganda and the idealogy of failed governments and failed economics…you are clueless!

      • un

        “You can’t answer the question.  You’re going to start answering by spewing propaganda.  Not an answer.”

        what the fuck are you smoking bitch? if you consider all answers to your questions to be propaganda, you’ll never get an “answer”. it’s obviously an admission of defeat by you who can’t do anything but to scream “propaganda”.

        “Show me any proof of 50,000 people dying because of healthcare?  Prove it.”

        here you go, bitch.
        http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917 :Nearly 45,000 people
        die in the United States each year — one every 12 minutes — in large
        part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care,
        Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on
        Thursday.”All of this is the dream of a foolish idiotic jerk.  You still
        haven’t answered the question.  distribution of goods and services…how
        would this be accomplished?”
        learn to read motherfucker. here is what i wrote “decentralized communal ownership of the means of production” your question was answered, you’re just too stupid to see what’s right in front of your fat nose.

        “What minimum services and goods?  Who makes/provides them?”
        housing, healthcare, food, communication, transportation… the people who make them now, workers.

        “What color, size, shape, production process, on and on with simple production questions”
        i’ve determined you to be a moron. what part of decentralized don’t you understand. those decisions will be made by people who make them today, the workers that fulfill those roles.

        “Decentralized communal ownership…say, how does that work”
        it works so that the people who actually do a particular job, run that job and determine the inner workings of that job through a democratic process which also incorporates the people of that community which the factory/mine etc. is a part of. a portion of their income is taxed to provide for social services etc. in that community and with the rest they determine how they should distribute among each other.

        “Wage slavery…provide minimal standard of living…who does all this providing?..why would they do it?”
        so that they can keep what the society deems to be theirs. it’s a contract between the society at large and the units operating in that society. since it’s the same now, with regards to taxation and enforcement of private property rights, i don’t see how your puny little head can’t figure it out.

        “Actually, we hope you adopt the same government style we are trying to
        get rid of.  It broke us…it will break you.  Oh, you already have taht
        system.”
        that’s a paranoid fantasy i have come to expect from you.

        “you don’t know what capitalism is” and “Under capitalism, the only way to gain wealth is by satisfying consumer”
        the sweet irony. capitalism IS wage slavery. it’s not the process of satisfying a “customer” that defines capitalism, it’s the use of capital to make a profit. since all value comes from labor, the profit therefore becomes exploitation hence the opposition to capitalism.

        “Here go download and read this…it’s free:”
        it’s also akin to rubbish… and i don’t like free rubbish either.

        “You are merely a stupid communistic jerk.  You have no clue about what you speak/type.  grow up…learn something.”
        LMFAO 🙂 oh, you were serious. sorry about that.

    • George

      You have gone all out of your way to avoid my primary question————-  What has ALGEBRA got to do with an aircraft carrier on patrol down the Strait of Hormuz ? Why won’t you simply answer the question ? You changed the subject  , not any of us and created a heated exchange as a result .   Simple question that asked for a simple answer and you have posted tons of unrelated stuff about civilian casualties and other non-related issues.     What has any  of this long drawn out drivel that you’re posting got to do with the American carrier in the Gulf ?   Everything that you have posted is TOTALLY OFF TOPIC.     You go on lengthy rants about things that are not related to the topic of this article.  Let me say again.  READ THE TITLE OF THE ARTICLE .    This article topic is about an  American AIRCRAFT CARRIER that had left the Strain of Hormuz and Iran demanding that it not return.   I have read a recent news article that America is sending two carrier groups back , Russia is sending one , and there just MAYBE a carrier group to be sent by France and Britian ( the latter not yet confirmed ).     STAY ON TOPIC       Apparently that is impossible for you to do and I really don’t know why I’m wasting my time responding to you as this is obviously going nowhere and a waste of time.  Read the title and comment on the title subject matter , not a hundred unrelated subjects that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject in question.   Then again I find myself violating my own suggestion when I stated    ” Don’t feed the trolls ! ” How sad, that this website has become a ” troll magnet”.  Amazing !

  • un

    reply to Don “the idiot” L

    “So…show us the photos of all those people killed in US streest as
    opposet to what we did see on TV coming from Iran…or syria.”
    lets start with you proving your baseless allegations first. where is your proof that syrian government or the iranian government are responsible for any killings of unarmed civilians? oh, you don’t have any proof? well, tough luck motherfucker, your loss.

    “What you fail to grasp is that your view of us is not from us but from
    your government/religious leaders who have an agenda (one of which is to
    convice you they have no religious motives…geez!).
    it’s just the opposite you moron. our leaders use religious rhetoric to relate to the common man in our society. they justify their actions through religious rhetoric, but the actions are not religiously motivated. they are based in cold, rational self-interest. arguments put forward by true experts on iran like robert baer and hillary mann leverett demonstrate this to be the case.

    “What they didn’t tell you is that in the late 1800s you jackasses were tribal and barely able to fend for yourselves.”
    that’s pretty much bullshit in the case of iran. but obviously you think all people in the middle east are the same so the nuances might be lost on you. well, if the west introduced some technology they were just paying back a portion of what they owed us, since all western knowledge during the renaissance was simply translations of islamic science. a study called “was the wealth of nations determined in 1500 b.c.?” proves that middle east has always been ahead of the west in technology right up until the rarly 1500s, before the mass slave exploitation and theft of native land. if the west was so much superior, why did it continually lag behind the east until the discovery of the americas and the slavery?

    “Karl Marx erroneously painted a picture of facvtory workers working in terrible scenarios.  He lied.”
    no he didn’t. historical records prove the conditions that he describes to be accurate. life was a living hell for the workers who didn’t have any of the benefits they enjoy today as a result of socialist policies.

    “Should the CIA have imposed the Sha in 53′  No.  But, what you don’t
    grasp is that had they not, your nation would be worse off than the
    USSR was.”
    my nation is always better off when we get to keep 1 dollar out of every 1 dollar we make from selling our oil. under the shah, this was less than 60 cents for most of the time. so forgive me if i don’t look favorably towards your exploitation of my resources. you can kindly go fuck yourself in that regard.

    “You’re tribal crap society has never made it to anything because you
    are a people of followers and you’re kept that way because you follow a
    crap religion.”
    the reality is that we’ve never had such an accumulation of wealth to fuel an industrial revolution because we don’t have a history of a brutal invasion of a huge continent on which we forced slave people to do the work for us.

    “I don’t hate you F__ks, I see you as weeds or cockroaches.”
    so you understand how i feel about your kind when you think you have any business in the middle east or the persian gulf. your ancestors were cave dwelling hunters, mine were builders of civilizations, cities, trade routes and ultimately empires. you might understand why i have such a low opinion of white europids whose history when matched against that of my people’s truly lack honor, dignity and civility. the difference between you and me is that my sense of supremacy is founded on a pattern of facts threading through history.

    “You and you’re brain-corrupted bretheren of 9-11 invaded…there will
    never be a second chance…pre-emption if necessary.  But, if  we mess
    up and you 5xs-a-day rug soilers do get through…the whole lot of you
    will be wip[ed from the face of this earth…count on it.”
    well, what have you pathetic worms been waiting for the past 30 years. did you happen to forget our address, we’ve been here for the past 5000 years and we intend to be here for at least another 10000 so we’d appreciate if you just put your money where your mouth is so it would be filled to spit out more senseless nagging.

    “We won a
    cold war which had we not, you wouldn’t have liked it under the
    Soviets.  Unfortunately, your leaders instigated a hate america an
    israel campaign to apease you while they screwed you.  Once the Soviets
    were gone…your leaders ramped it up to cover their tracks.”
    the soviets never threatened to invade any country unless they believed that united states had such intentions. this is why they only invaded afghanistan as a result of your maneuvering. so, that’s pretty much bullshit revisionist history on your part.

    “Don’t look out at us for your fai8lure to find your own lives.  You blame us for your ignorance and religious fool hardiness.

    Get srewed yopu F__ing middle eastern worm!”

    oh, so it’s not “your” fault that “you” meddled in our internal affairs. here’s some advice, don’t bitch and moan about your barracks being blown up in lebanon the next time you decide to meddle in our business.

    now, go fuck yourself you pathetic greasy europig.

  • un

    in reply to george

    “You people live over there in total squallor , primitive,  and chaotic behavior galore and you dare to call us losers ?”

    we have much lower crime rates than united states and we have
    participated in much less savagery than americans in the last century.
    we didn’t invade vietnam and killed and maimed millions of defenseless
    people. we didn’t spray them with agent orange or left millions of
    unexploded bombs which continue to kill people to date. we didn’t
    overthrow democratically elected governments in the south america or the
    middle east. we didn’t open up schools to train torturers like you did
    for many south american fascists.

    “You people live to murder, torture, destroy, lie, deceive, take over ,
    subjugate, oppress and dream of violence everty awaken moment and yet
    you badmouth us.”
    your own history badmouths you. you have been at the center of every conflict that murdered civilians in mass and on the side of the culprit for as long as one can go back.

    “As I stated before , even if all you say was indeed true , the fact
    still remains that in this milennia you people have done NOTHING in the
    advancement of world society.”
    you mean the last 12 years is the defining benchmark for societies around the world? well, considering you invaded two countries, attacked another and killed hundreds of thousands of people in that period, you have done much to hamper the advancement of world society.

    “Where are your inventions ? Where is your technology .    Where is your
    advanced civil and societal infrastructure ?    Every single thing if
    technology that you all have inn your third (turd) world nations comes
    from Western Society”

    you can see our technology through the downing of a highly advanced u.s. drone without using any destructive methods. you can see our technology through our advancements in our space program. you an see our infrastructure through looking at human development index which i gave to you already, that you conveniently ignore.

    “Just look at your societies —— backwards , primitive with nothing but massacres and mayhem occurring daily.”
    you want to compare the number of people killed by your government to mine? sadly for you, you lose big time.

    “go play with your camel and leave us”
    i know it’s commonplace in redneckstan to fornicate with animals, but you should keep that to yourself, especially when you already fail so miserably to defend your actions.

  • un

    in reply to george

    “Un , you say that you have a Jewish friend ? Well I believe that to be a
    lie. Does your  Jewish friend know that you refer to them as “parasitic
    zionists”.”
    i never claimed to have any jewish friends. i don’t think i would make friends with any jew who believed in judaism or zionism. i referred to the israelis as the parasitic zionists and the description is fitting since israeli state is ideologically built on zionism using other people’s money.

    “I am indeed referring to that percentage who live in areas with training camps to spread horror and terror around the world.”
    you have a very weak grasp of the issues. those camps you mention are used to kill and menace the people of my country. like the MEK camps in iraq that your troops protected and provided financial aid to, like the al-qaeda camps in pakistan and afghanistan which were funded by your saudi allies. for someone complaining this much about terrorism, i suggest you write your government a letter to stop participating in it.

    “but YOU are the one who came upon this site aand started YOUR hostile attacks upon us”
    i have every right to respond to the filth in this article that defames and slanders my country and my people. if you think the kind of assholes who are making a case built on lies and deception to attack my country will be left to spread their lies without a challenge, you’re most mistaken. and i don’t even really care about an actual american attack on iran, if that happens i’ll be defending my country as it’s been the way of my people for the past 5000 years. but i have zero tolerance for people who declare their desire to be the aggressors while trying to lay the pseudo-intellectual foundation for blaming the victims preemptively. that’s just western ideology at it’s purest form, something i have learned to despise a long time ago.

  • George

    In reply to un again regarding algebra—–

    The following are recorded quotes from history researchers and historians. According to Burton , Klines Mathematical Development  From Ancient to Modern Times  , Boyer’s A History of Mathematics—-   ” The History of Algeba by Baumgart in Historial Topics from the Mathematics Classroom “. 

                                            Highlights in The History of Algebra 

    Egyptian Algebra
                     Much of our knowlede of ancient Egyptian mathematics , including algebra is based on the Rhind papyrus.  This was written about 1650 BC  and thought to epresent Egyptian mathematics of about 1850 BC. The Cairo Papyrus of about 300 BC indicated Egyptians solved problems of two second degree equations in two unknowns

    Babylonian Algebra
                         From the Old babylonian Period  (1800-1600 ) was more advanced than that of Egypt and had an excellent sexagesimal numeration system.

    Greek  Geometrical Algebra 
                        The Greeks of the classical period  , who did not recognize the existence of irrational numbers , avoided the problem thus created representing quantities as geometric magnitudes . Various algebraic identities and constructions equivalent to the solutionof quadratic  equations were expressed and proven in geometric form.  In content there was little beyond what the Babylonians had done , and because of it’s form geometrical algebra was of little practical value.  This approach retarded progress in algebra  for several centuries . The significant achievement was in applying deductive reasoning and describing general procedures.

    Diophantine Algebra
                The late Greek mathematician , Diophantus  (250 AD ) introduced the syncopated style of writing equations .  The rhetorical style remained in commonuse for many centuries for many more centuries to come.

    Hindu Algebra
                       The successes of the Greeks , the Hindus of India dates back at least 2000BC. The Hindus introduced negative numbers to represent debts. They made progress in algebra as well as arithmetic . The Hindus recognized that quadratic equations have two roots , and inducted negative as well as irrational roots.

    Arabic Algebra
                   In the 7th and 8th centuries the Arabs , united by Mohammed ; conquered the land from India , acoss Northern Africa , to Spain. They pursued the arts and sciences and were responsible for most of the scientific advances made in tyhe west. Although the language was Arabic , many of the scholars were Greeks , Christians, Persians and jews. In algebra , the Arabs contributed first of all the name . The word  “algebra ”  comes from the tile of the a text book in the subject —   Hisab al-jabr w’al mugabala  , written about 830 AD by the astronomer /mathematician Mohammed ibn -Musa al-khowarizmi . 

    European Algebra after 1500
                         At the beginning of this period , zero had been accepted as a number and irrational s were used freely. In the 16th century there were grteat advances in technique , notably the solution of the cubic and quartic equations.  By the end of the 17th century the deliberate us of symbolism –as opposed to incidental and accidental use– and the awareness of the power and generality it confers entered mathematics.

    Abstract Algebra
                    In the 19th century , the british mathematicians took the lead in the study of algebra. These use algebras in which the operation of multiplication is not required to be communicative.

    Peano ( Italian )1858-1932
                         Peano created an axiomatic treatment of the natural numbers in 1989. Abstract algebra is a branch of mathematics in which researchers have been very active in the twentieth century.

    *****************************************************************
     After further study I found that there were several different kinds of algebra just as there are different kinds of mathematics/arithmetic in general. There were other societies ( in Africa and Asia ) that made their claims  as well but will be too lengthy to include.   Some are in dispute.

    The word “algebra” is derived from the Arabic word Al-Jabr.  

    • un

      nope, you’re quite mistaken as expected from the typical american who never had the drive to learn about islamic history, especially it’s advancements since your governments have been promoting re-writing a eurocentric version of history to create a false sense of supremacy since the 16th century.

      algebra as a discipline of mathematics was invented by a persian muslim, named Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī who lived between 780-850 A.D. memorize that name before making a fool of yourself in the future again.

      here is what differentiates real algebra from random examples you gave. if you have any background in mathematics you should be able to realize the errors of your mindset quickly with regards to how algebra was invented and by whom.

      the name of al-khwarizmi’s masterpiece book which defines algebra as a field of mathematics is translated to english as “The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing” and here are the reasons as explained by the experts themselves.

      R. Rashed and Angela Armstrong write…
      “Al-Khwarizmi’s text can be seen to be ***distinct*** not only from the
      Babylonian tablets, but also from Diophantus’ Arithmetica. It no longer
      concerns a series of problems to be resolved, but an exposition which
      starts with primitive terms in which the combinations must give *****all
      possible prototypes for equations*****, which henceforward *****explicitly
      constitute the true object of study*****.

      On the other hand, the *****idea of an
      equation for its own sake***** appears from the ***beginning*** and, one could say,
      in a generic manner, *****insofar as it does not simply emerge in the course
      of solving a problem******, but is specifically called on to define an
      *****infinite class of problems.******”

      * : what you should focus on, in case you miss it.

      J. J. O’Connor and E. F. Robertson write in MacTutor History of Mathematics archive…
      “Perhaps one of the most significant advances made by Arabic
      mathematics began at this time with the work of al-Khwarizmi, namely the
      beginnings of algebra. It is important to understand just how
      significant this new idea was. It was a revolutionary move away from the
      Greek concept of mathematics which was essentially geometry. Algebra
      was a *****unifying theory which allowed rational numbers,
      irrational numbers, geometrical magnitudes, etc., to all be treated as “algebraic objects”*****.
      It gave mathematics a *****whole new development path so much broader in
      concept to that which had existed before, and provided a vehicle for
      future development of the subject*****. Another important aspect of the
      introduction of algebraic ideas was that it allowed mathematics to be
      applied to itself in a way which had not happened before.”so the evidence provided here proves without a shadow of a doubt that Khwarizmi is as much rightfully credited as the inventor of algebra as Einstein is credited for the theory of relativity, in that many people can come up with general ideas about a subject, but the person who can bring them together to create the macro-understanding with absolute clarity is the one we justifiably credit as the inventor, in this case a persian muslim.

      • George

                 Un  , who do you think you’re fooling.    These weren’t just samples that I gave but documented historical facts.   If your backward society claims to be so mathematically advanced then why is it that all Muslim  countries exist as though they are still in the 7th century third world.   Do you all have a space program  ?  NO !      Do you all have an automotive manufacturing industry ?   NO !     Do you all have a computer manufacturing industry ?  NO !   Do you all have an aircraft manufacturing industry ? NO !    Do you all have a marine vessel manufacturing industry ?  NO !   Do you all have a highway system , a structured and advanced industrial infrastructure , and any positive contributions to world society  ? Absolutely NOT !!!  
                                  You are NOT the first troll to appear upon this website and I’m sure you won’t be the last.    All the modern technology that you all have in your garbage nations are the result of Western Innovation , invention and ingenuity.   You produce NOTHING but murder, chaos, hatred, torture, subjugation , oppression  and horror .  
                                   Your propaganda ploy doesn’t work with me because I know better.  It is YOU who don’t have a thourough knowledge and understanding of Western Civilization , history, and culture because you only accept and follow that which you have been indoctrinated with by force of course. You people are not allowed to think for yourselves or make your own decisions because you are mental and physical slaves to a barbaric ideology.    All your badmouthing of America amounts to nothing  because we won’t waste our time in pandering to your lies , deceit, and brainwashing propaganda .   You get an “E” for effort. 
                            Even if all you claimed were true , the fact still remains that in this millenia , you people have contributed NOTHING to world advancement , or for world peace.    If you actually think that we are stupid enough to believe this rubbish you’re handing us then you are obviously existing in a fattasy world . But then again that is what trolls do. Trolls don’t come upon a website to engage in civil discourse but rather to sabotage the civil dialogue and get their thrills in disrupting the civil exchange of ideas. 
                                 You come upon this forum with your threatening tone comments, then you become slanderous  & defamatory and then to add insult to injury , you twist things around to make it appear that it is us.  We’re NOT falling for it.  Why don’t you just go crawl back into your cave , give your camel a carrot and leave us the %$#@ alone because you have proven to be nothing but a royal pain in the a**—- plain and simple. 
                   

        • un

          ” Un  , who do you think you’re fooling.    These weren’t just samples that I gave but documented historical facts.”
          facts of what, you moron? the only fact you need is to figure out who has provided the knowledge to formulate an indefinite number of algebraic equations and provide solutions to each and every one of them. the answer is al-khwarizmi, period. the others you mentioned have never even came close to achieving this. they simply provided a few fixed set of solutions to a handful of examples. you surely mustn’t be smart enough to appreciate the vast difference between the two. let me help you understand…
          the difference between al-khwarizmi and others is the difference between someone who understands and explains the decimal numerical system and the concept of addition as it applies to this and another person who knows the answer to 2+2=?

          “Do you all have a space program  ?  NO !”
          umm… actually we do. we’ve just sent another satellite into orbit and it was quite well received by many experts in the world.

          “Do you all have an automotive manufacturing industry ?   NO !”
          umm… actually we do. we produce more cars than united kingdom and we’re ranked 13th in the world ahead of many european countries.

          “Do you all have a computer manufacturing industry ?  NO !”
          umm… actually we have domestic capability in case it’s required. but along with the rest of the world incl. germany, france etc., we easily buy intel chips which are much better bang for buck.

          “Do you all have an aircraft manufacturing industry ? NO !”
          umm… actually we do. we build parts for most of our aircraft, civilian and military. how do you think we have more than three dozen operational f-14s in spite of the arms embargo by the united states? we also manufacture cargo aircraft. our only setback is lack of expertise in metallurgy which makes domestic turbine engines much less efficient to manufacture and operate.

          “Do you all have a marine vessel manufacturing industry ? NO !”
          umm… actually we do. as an example you can look at the 18 submarines we built, designed specifically for the shallow waters of the persian gulf.

          “Do you all have a highway system , a structured and advanced industrial
          infrastructure , and any positive contributions to world society  ?
          Absolutely NOT !!!”
          yes and yes. iran is the fastest developing nation in scientific research consecutively for 6-7 years. you can check science-metrix for the actual data.

          “ll the modern technology that you all have in your garbage nations are the result of Western Innovation”
          well, you morons couldn’t even invent algebra without which none of those achievements could be realized. so, in my book you owe us, not the other way around.

          “Your propaganda ploy doesn’t work with me because I know better.”
          LMFAO 🙂 !!!

          “You people are not allowed to think for yourselves or make your own decisions”
          LMFAO 🙂 !!! well, if you’re a historical determinist, the same goes for you too.

          “mental and physical slaves to a barbaric ideology.”
          what would that ideology be?  as far as i’m concerned my only belief is in my extended family (iranic peoples) and our right to form a unified super state in the middle east.

          “…or for world peace”
          well, for starters we didn’t start two major wars which killed hundreds of millions of people, westerners otoh, did.

  • un

    you’re quite uninformed about iran and regional politics which is expected since you’re an ignorant westerner. iran isn’t a state motivated by religious goals, but by national self-interest. there is no evidence except for some nitpicked rhetoric aimed at internal audience to support the mythical case that is perpetuated in the west on the coming of the twelfth imam.

    also, iran is already a country living in the present day. how could they support a domestic nuclear program which consists of thousands of scientists if that wasn’t the case. how could they be the fastest developing nation in the world in scientific research consistently throughout the latter half of the first decade of the new millennium?

    the west is a belligerent force on humanity and the muslims you so love to hate have invented algebra with which computer technology can be made possible. so shove your idiotic, bigoted comments up your ass and wish that the confrontation you wish doesn’t happen or i guarantee you that you’ll only invoke a response that will send your so-called civilization back into the days where your women were sold in our markets as tools of sexual gratification.

    -an aryan.

    • Liz

      Oh, so you wouldn’t call wiping Israel off the map a religious goal? You can take your insane leader, your Ayatollah, and your piece of crap religion and shove it up your own ass.

      • un

        i might think of that once you assholes collectively shove up your asses each and every bastard in the long list of crappy leaders your country has produced who are/were actually war criminals unlike ahmadinejad, whom you blame with no evidence put forward. so fuck off.

        • George

          Our crappy leaders ?     What are you all producing over there besides murder, torture, slavery, subjugation, chaos, mayhem and miserable lives.   You are the one who has NO evidence whatsoever .       Why is it that America is highly advanced and yor societies are still living like ancient and primitive barbarians and you behave like savages ?    You know un,  if you had come upon this site and had been civil abouit what you had to say , then of course we would have checked into what you have asserted , so the abbrassive and antagonistic approach started with you ( not us ).   Go suck a camel’s d**k and F*** yourself and go harrass someone else on another site as we have better things to do than be annoyed by your bullsh**   !!!!!!

        • George

          Un , you say that you have a Jewish friend ? Well I believe that to be a lie. Does your  Jewish friend know that you refer to them as “parasitic zionists” .   Oh by the way , just for clarification—     Muslims in general are NOT ragheads , or throwbacks.  I am indeed referring to that percentage who live in areas with training camps to spread horror and terror around the world.  My comments are directed at people like yourself who go around and initiate attacking comments and then complain when someone responds in kind.   That’s definately a double-standard hypocrisy.       Considering that this page was suppose to be about ALGEBRA and  is now way OFF TOPIC , I’m not surprised to your responses.   If it’s about algebra of which the topic is suppose to be all about , then stick to the subject at hand.   Look up the dictionary definition definition of troll. You will see that primarily a “troll”  primarily posts off topic messages on internet discussion forum which is certainly the path that you have taken. As I stated before , had you simply made your point and had been civil about it , I would have gladly engaged in civil discussion on the topic—but YOU are the one who came upon this site aand started YOUR hostile attacks upon us ( not vice versa )  Got it ? No one was making any personal attacks upon anyone until YOU started this mess. I do not agree with everything my country does and when I see wrong and recognize it , I do indeed admit it and denounce it. Do you do the same–vice versa ? I doubt it. I often speak out against things I see wrong regarding issues by my own government and it’s leaders . Do you do like wise ? I doubt that as well. Prior to your first post no one made any personal ad hominem attacks upon anyone . You initiated this right from the start and we merely reciprocated. You can deny it all you want , it’s true and you know it.  

      • un

        “Our crappy leaders ?     What are you all producing over there besides
        murder, torture, slavery, subjugation, chaos, mayhem and miserable
        lives.”
        if you care to check the actual data… despite stealing of our oil by the british since the beginning of 20th century, despite our democratically elected officials being replaced by western puppets to continue that theft since 1950s until 1979, despite an aggressive war funded and supported by the united states against my nation for 8 years (remember when saddam was your best buddy?) and economic sanctions for the last 30 years, our HDI (human development index) 0.707 is ranked 88th (out of 187) in the world and considered as high human development by the united nations. and i wouldn’t bring up slavery as a member of a nation who had racial segregation until the 1960s, something my nation abandoned in 500 B.C.

        “Why is it that America is highly advanced and yor societies are still
        living like ancient and primitive barbarians and you behave like savages
        ?”

        america is the most savage and barbarian nation of all. how many people were killed by americans in the last century? millions upon millions. america’s wealth is a direct result of slavery and barbarism. you killed the natives and exploited the blacks, period.

        what’s with your westerners’ obsession with camels?

    • If the Muslims invented algebra, why didn’t they invent the computer? The West advanced Islamic science further than Islam.

      Islam’s glory days are long gone, leaving Muslim-majority nations nowhere to live but the mental darkness of the Quran. Nothing will coax such a stubborn ignorance from its dreary seat besides a blindingly bright Enlightenment or a blindingly bright nuclear bomb. I dearly hope it’s the former, but I’m prepared for the latter if need be.

      • un

        oh what could be the driving force behind that… oh, right, accumulation of vast amounts of wealth through invasion of native american land on which african slaves were put to work.

        there you go, you have your answer. if you assholes were to repay the slaves what you truly owe them, you would have to give up america and go back to europe, where you came from originally.

        • George

          Dumb bitch ?   You have about as much sense as a tree , or better yet make that of a brick– you braindead chunk of manure.  If you don’t have anything better to do , then go pester somebody else with . Here you go again , you come upon this site attacking us with your hate-mongering rhetoric.  Now  will admite , there are a couple things you have said that are true and i dio give credit where credit is true. Then of course we wouldn’t be having this argument if you had simply been civil in the first place.   If you disagreed with something that was posted on this site and had additional information or conflicting / contrary information , then I would have been more than happy to listen to you ( or rather read your comments with interest ) But oh no , not you , you come upon this site right from the start attacking from your very first post and now you’re trying to act as if we started it.   If you disagreed with something posted , I wouild have given you my full serious attention and if I researched it further and saw that you were right I would have given you total credit and conceded that you were right on the mark. Instead , you came here from your first posed message being attacking and delivering your message with a threatening tone.    Everyone who has posted on this site for some time knows that when i am found to be wrong that I openly admit it and apologize for such. But in your case , you came here from the start being insulting. If you had been civil from the start then perhaps we could have had a true and friendly dialogue and I would have even thanked you for such information. Instead you make your first and subsequent posts attacking , insulting and harrassing and you want us to pay attention to you .    You have got some nerve.  I have complaints with my own society and I certainly don’t cover up any discrepancies whatsoever , but in your case you don’t know how to start a discourse from the beginning . You startted this mess in the first place and I simply gave it back in kind. I’m willing to listen to anyone who acts civil from the beginning but when a person comes off at the very onset being attacking and insulting from the beginning , then they have immediatelly lost my attention and respect.    The next time that you come onto a discussion forum , why don’t you try acting civil from the start , and then a true discourse can follow . Try it on for size. I’m not going to waste my time getting into a childish name-calling pissing contest with you. I’m not going to be lured in that direction because  I can see what you’re really up to.  We have experienced it before .

        • George

          Since I couldn’t reply to your bottom post , I’ll use this one instead.  Yes I do indeed have Muslim friends and NO it isn’t a lie. Fortunately they don’t think like you and come upon  and discussion right from the start being attacking and insulting.  As far as my negative comments , they are directed at people like YOU , as I do indeed know Muslims who are decent , law-abiding and civil people who only go about their daily lives and don’t bother anyone.  These particular Muslims don’t go around with you arrogant attitude by coming onto a discussion forum right from the start and begin  insulting, attacking , denigrating and villifying people .    
                               If you had wanted to introduce information regarding algebra , then you could have presented it without  YOUR initiated hostility right from the start. Of course you will never admit when You’re wrong but will continue to pretend that it’s us.   It wasn’t your statements regarding algebra that pisses me off but your initiated offensive presentation right form the start. If you ever decide that you want to engage in a civil conversation without the antagonism , then I will respond in kind as well. The ball is in your court.  Truth be told ! 

    • Jillian Becker

      un/aryan- 

      The inventor of algebra was Greek, though a Persian has a strong claim to to the honor. This is from Wikipedia:’The Greek mathematician Diophantus has traditionally been known as the “father of algebra” but in more recent times there is much debate over whether al-Khwarizmi, who founded the discipline of al-jabr, deserves that title instead. Those who support Diophantus point to the fact that the algebra found in Al-Jabr is slightly more elementary than the algebra found in Arithmetica and that Arithmetica is syncopated while Al-Jabr is fully rhetorical.Those who support Al-Khwarizmi point to the fact that he introduced the methods of “reduction” and “balancing” (the transposition of subtracted terms to the other side of an equation, that is, the cancellation of like terms on opposite sides of the equation) which the term al-jabr originally referred to, and that he gave an exhaustive explanation of solving quadratic equations, supported by geometric proofs, while treating algebra as an independent discipline in its own right. His algebra was also no longer concerned “with a series of problems to be resolved, but an exposition which starts with primitive terms in which the combinations must give all possible prototypes for equations, which henceforward explicitly constitute the true object of study.” He also studied an equation for its own sake and “in a generic manner, insofar as it does not simply emerge in the course of solving a problem, but is specifically called on to define an infinite class of problems.” The Persian [atheist] mathematician Omar Khayyam is credited with identifying the foundations of algebraic geometry and found the general geometric solution of the cubic equation…’ Interesting that you refer to a great achievement of the Persian past. You give us insights into the Iranian mind-set of the present.  Uncomfortable feelings of inferiority? As for your claim to current achievement in scientific research, put “Stuxnet worm” into our search slot and see how easily the West has frustrated Iranian efforts to use Western technology against it. Yes, feelings of inferiority, and also of fear – verging on desperation to judge by your resort to abuse – is apparently and understandably gripping your mind, I deduce. Mullahs do not have religious goals? With that you astonish us!  On your last point: Your (Muslim) women are still being sold in the market as tools of sexual gratification, whether they’re married or just trafficked as sex slaves this old islamic custom still persist. Whether it’s done in Iran now I don’t know. But I do know that Iran hangs homosexuals and stones women who have been raped. Don’t try to defend your country. No defense is possible. Try to change it.    

    • Jillian Becker

      un/aryan- 

      The inventor of algebra was Greek, though a Persian has a strong claim to to the honor. This is from Wikipedia:’The Greek mathematician Diophantus has traditionally been known as the “father of algebra” but in more recent times there is much debate over whether al-Khwarizmi, who founded the discipline of al-jabr, deserves that title instead. Those who support Diophantus point to the fact that the algebra found in Al-Jabr is slightly more elementary than the algebra found in Arithmetica and that Arithmetica is syncopated while Al-Jabr is fully rhetorical.Those who support Al-Khwarizmi point to the fact that he introduced the methods of “reduction” and “balancing” (the transposition of subtracted terms to the other side of an equation, that is, the cancellation of like terms on opposite sides of the equation) which the term al-jabr originally referred to, and that he gave an exhaustive explanation of solving quadratic equations, supported by geometric proofs, while treating algebra as an independent discipline in its own right. His algebra was also no longer concerned “with a series of problems to be resolved, but an exposition which starts with primitive terms in which the combinations must give all possible prototypes for equations, which henceforward explicitly constitute the true object of study.” He also studied an equation for its own sake and “in a generic manner, insofar as it does not simply emerge in the course of solving a problem, but is specifically called on to define an infinite class of problems.” The Persian [atheist] mathematician Omar Khayyam is credited with identifying the foundations of algebraic geometry and found the general geometric solution of the cubic equation…’ Interesting that you refer to a great achievement of the Persian past. You give us insights into the Iranian mind-set of the present.  Uncomfortable feelings of inferiority? As for your claim to current achievement in scientific research, put “Stuxnet worm” into our search slot and see how easily the West has frustrated Iranian efforts to use Western technology against it. Yes, feelings of inferiority, and also of fear – verging on desperation to judge by your resort to abuse – is apparently and understandably gripping your mind, I deduce. Mullahs do not have religious goals? With that you astonish us!  On your last point: Your (Muslim) women are still being sold in the market as tools of sexual gratification, whether they’re married or just trafficked as sex slaves this old islamic custom still persist. Whether it’s done in Iran now I don’t know. But I do know that Iran hangs homosexuals and stones women who have been raped. Don’t try to defend your country. No defense is possible. Try to change it.    

    • Jillian Becker

      un/aryan- 

      The inventor of algebra was Greek, though a Persian has a strong claim to to the honor. 

      This is from Wikipedia:

      ‘The Greek mathematician Diophantus has traditionally been known as the “father of algebra” but in more recent times there is much debate over whether al-Khwarizmi, who founded the discipline of al-jabr, deserves that title instead. Those who support Diophantus point to the fact that the algebra found in Al-Jabr is slightly more elementary than the algebra found in Arithmetica and that Arithmetica is syncopated while Al-Jabr is fully rhetorical.Those who support Al-Khwarizmi point to the fact that he introduced the methods of “reduction” and “balancing” (the transposition of subtracted terms to the other side of an equation, that is, the cancellation of like terms on opposite sides of the equation) which the term al-jabr originally referred to, and that he gave an exhaustive explanation of solving quadratic equations, supported by geometric proofs, while treating algebra as an independent discipline in its own right. His algebra was also no longer concerned “with a series of problems to be resolved, but an exposition which starts with primitive terms in which the combinations must give all possible prototypes for equations, which henceforward explicitly constitute the true object of study.” He also studied an equation for its own sake and “in a generic manner, insofar as it does not simply emerge in the course of solving a problem, but is specifically called on to define an infinite class of problems.” The Persian [atheist] mathematician Omar Khayyam is credited with identifying the foundations of algebraic geometry and found the general geometric solution of the cubic equation…’ 

      Interesting that you refer to a great achievement of the Persian past. You give us insights into the Iranian mind-set of the present.  Uncomfortable feelings of inferiority? As for your claim to current achievement in scientific research, put “Stuxnet worm” into our search slot and see how easily the West has frustrated Iranian efforts to use Western technology against it. Yes, feelings of inferiority, and also of fear – verging on desperation to judge by your resort to abuse – is apparently and understandably gripping your mind, I deduce. 

      Mullahs do not have religious goals? With that you astonish us!

       On your last point: Your (Muslim) women are still being sold in the market as tools of sexual gratification, whether they’re married or just trafficked as sex slaves this old islamic custom still persist. Whether it’s done in Iran now I don’t know. But I do know that Iran hangs homosexuals and stones women who have been raped. Don’t try to defend your country. No defense is possible. Try to change it.

      • George

        Absolutely !    What you posted is correct  but un is a person who only subscribes to his indoctrinated dogma and nothing else.  

        • un

          nonsense, there is a world of difference between coming up with a set of fixed solutions for a limited number of problems and coming up with a macro-understanding of a subject whereby you explain a solution that universally applies to all similar problems.

          arithmetica and diopanthus can only be respectively compared to The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing and Al-Khwarizmi as an average 6 year old’s mathematical skills can be compared to a mathematics major.

          this is factual information, not dogma you dumb bitch.

      • un

        i already posted the same quotes above but let me just repeat so that you understand that there is actually no real debate except for eurocentric losers who want to keep their dream of supremacy alive.

        The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing


        R. Rashed and Angela Armstrong write:

        “Al-Khwarizmi’s text can be seen to be distinct not only from the Babylonian tablets, but also from Diophantus’ Arithmetica. It no longer concerns a series of problems to be resolved, but an exposition
        which starts with primitive terms in which the combinations must give
        all possible prototypes for equations, which henceforward explicitly
        constitute the true object of study. On the other hand, the idea of an
        equation for its own sake appears from the beginning and, one could say,
        in a generic manner, insofar as it does not simply emerge in the course
        of solving a problem, but is specifically called on to define an
        infinite class of problems.”[4]

        J. J. O’Connor and E. F. Robertson wrote in the MacTutor History of Mathematics archive:

        “Perhaps one of the most significant advances made by Arabic
        mathematics began at this time with the work of al-Khwarizmi, namely the
        beginnings of algebra. It is important to understand just how
        significant this new idea was. It was a revolutionary move away from the
        Greek concept of mathematics which was essentially geometry. Algebra
        was a unifying theory which allowed rational numbers, irrational numbers,
        geometrical magnitudes, etc., to all be treated as “algebraic objects”.
        It gave mathematics a whole new development path so much broader in
        concept to that which had existed before, and provided a vehicle for
        future development of the subject. Another important aspect of the
        introduction of algebraic ideas was that it allowed mathematics to be
        applied to itself in a way which had not happened before.”[5]so, you’re wrong, i’m right.

        • George

          Eurocentric losers ?   Losers ?      Let’s examine you assertion more closely.     You people live over there in total squallor , primitive,  and chaotic behavior galore and you dare to call us losers ?     You people live to murder, torture, destroy, lie, deceive, take over , subjugate, oppress and dream of violence everty awaken moment and yet you badmouth us.  You’re not right about a f***ing thing.  Keep dreaming . 
                                You haven’t proven verified or substantiated anything whatsoever .   As I stated before , even if all you say was indeed true , the fact still remains that in this milennia you people have done NOTHING in the advancement of world society.   Where are your inventions ? Where is your technology .    Where is your advanced civil and societal infrastructure ?    Every single thing if technology that you all have inn your third (turd) world nations comes from Western Society ——— the same society that you love to hate , denigrate, villify , malign , and mock.  In spite of all this BS nonsense crap that you’re handing us , you cannot dispute the facts . Just look at your societies —— backwards , primitive with nothing but massacres and mayhem occurring daily.  So much for PEACE.   You may fool others with this nonsense diatribe of yours but we know better .  Now if you’re done trolling , go play with your camel and leave us the f*** alone ! 

    • Don L

      Un…the name fits.

      Iran lives in the present day and is advanced…what an idiot (F’nking idiot) you are.  So, slaughtering your iranian’s in the street because they protest a corrupt election is living in the present.  Boy, you certainly have a warped view of what the present is.

      Iran affords nuclear research and construction through theft and the denial of freedom to its people. 

      Un…let’s meet.  I’d like to take a sharp item and open you up from groin through yopur lower jaw…so I can see inside what makes up persian fecal matter!

      You are a soiled little man with a corrupt view of the world…indoctrinated in the filth of your islamic garbage.  Get on your knees five times a day to pray to a supposed who’s writings are the essence sociopathic lunacy. This piece of crap, what’s its name mohammad, was a loser, inferior, scared and dismal person. 

      And, little pieces of S__t like yourself have no self worth as you are even scared of your women….

      Americans, over decades, have become complacent and forgot the uniqueness of the American principles.  And, chief among the gift we gave the world, Screww math/algebra, was the idea that all men have unalienable rights and are equal before the law.  You ya little excrement, are a useless brain regurgitating the tripe of the indoctrinated and controlled.  No truth…the lies of thougths of a slug following it’s masters teachings.

      Western culture survived and you assholes stayed stuck in the 7th century is because in the west, we invented freedom, free thought, the right to assmble, free speech, freedom of religion for the losers that think they need that.

      Freedom jerk…that’s the cure…you and your government are doomed and I look foward to seeing you andd your kind being the 3rd receipient of the bomb.

      Get off my planet you useless piece of crap!

      • un

        You are a soiled little man with a corrupt view of the world…indoctrinated in the filth of your islamic garbage.” So, slaughtering your iranian’s in the street because they protest a corrupt election is living in the present.”
        how many people were killed? oh, right just the one. compare that number to the people (overwhelmingly non-white) who have been murdered victims of police brutality in the united states, it’s quite insignificant.

        “Iran affords nuclear research and construction through theft and the denial of freedom to its people.”
        iranians overwhelmingly support the nuclear program. it’s in our national interest because it provides us with the medical isotopes we need for our cancer patients and it provides us with much needed cheap electricity for our industries. otherwise we have to build more expensive oil refineries to use up our valuable oil we would have to burn for electricity. it’s not very cost-efficient.

        “Un…let’s meet.  I’d like to take a sharp item and open you up from
        groin through yopur lower jaw…so I can see inside what makes up
        persian fecal matter!”
        that’s easy. if the u.s. declares war against us, join the usmc and i promise to personally post the video of your beheading on youtube.

        “You are a soiled little man with a corrupt view of  the world… indoctrinated in the filth of your islamic garbage.”
        guess again. i’m not a muslim, i just hate the guts of western liberal democracies like any sane person should.

        “all men have unalienable rights and are equal before the law.”
        apparently rich, white men are more equal, as evident by the history of your country.

        “we invented freedom, free thought, the right to assmble, free speech, freedom of religion”
        unfortunately you morons are incapable of understanding those ideas, or the hypocrisy of your claims. were the millions of slaves you abducted from their homes free to do any of those?  were the millions of native americans that you slaughtered free to do any of those? i didn’t think so.

        “3rd receipient of the bomb”
        in that case, i’m pretty certain yours will be the recipient of the last.

        • Don L

          Un…lille shit,

          You are an ignorant propagandized slime.

          So…show us the photos of all those people killed in US streest as opposet to what we did see on TV coming from Iran…or syria.

          What you fail to grasp is that your view of us is not from us but from your government/religious leaders who have an agenda (one of which is to convice you they have no religious motives…geez!).

          What they didn’t tell you is that in the late 1800s you jackasses were tribal and barely able to fend for yourselves.  You followed the rulers and monarchs all over the region…life pretty much sucked for the typical persian/arab.  It was the west that introduced technology to you crappies.  It was your rulers who screwed it up toward holding on to power.

          Karl Marx erroneously painted a picture of facvtory workers working in terrible scenarios.  He lied.  No one ever forced workers to the factory and he didn’t say what life was like for these workers before there was a factory.  In fact it was nighmarish!!!   No work or food…starvation ran rampant.

          Similarly, your picture of the west and its interaction with Iran or any middle east nation is crap history. 

          Should the CIA have imposed the Sha in 53′  No.  But, what you don’t grasp is that had they not, your nation would be worse off than the USSR was.  Anti-capitalists are central planning socialist and there are only two versions:fascists and communists.  You wound up with the best of two baddies.

          You’re tribal crap society has never made it to anything because you are a people of followers and you’re kept that way because you follow a crap religion. 

          I don’t hate you F__ks, I see you as weeds or cockroaches. I don’t hate them, I see them as nuisance, damaging.   If they are out in a field not bothering anything, fine…but when they invade my yard or home…out come the tools to eliminate them.  You and you’re brain-corrupted bretheren of 9-11 invaded…there will never be a second chance…pre-emption if necessary.  But, if  we mess up and you 5xs-a-day rug soilers do get through…the whole lot of you will be wip[ed from the face of this earth…count on it.

          We won a cold war which had we not, you wouldn’t have liked it under the Soviets.  Unfortunately, your leaders instigated a hate america an israel campaign to apease you while they screwed you.  Once the Soviets were gone…your leaders ramped it up to cover their tracks.

          Don’t look out at us for your fai8lure to find your own lives.  You blame us for your ignorance and religious fool hardiness.

          Get srewed yopu F__ing middle eastern worm!

        • Don L

          So you hate western democracies like all sane people would”
           
          Alright jackass…explain your governmental model and how it’s economic system would work.  I dare you to you empty ignorand foolish piece of fecal material.  Show us how brilliant you are.  Show us the dream utopia of the living in the present day iranian.

          We await your illumination of a wonderous world under your vision.  We have messed it up.  So expound…how would your government work to assure individual rights.  How would your economy function to sustain scarce resources and assure a rational distribution of goods and services?

          Go for it big mouth.  You don’t like our stuff…what’s your idea!

          Bet you can’t do it F__kface, loudmouth!

  • If there comes a war between the West and the Islamic world, and the West wins this war by might of its weaponry, perhaps we might be able to facilitate an actual dialogue with the post-Islamic world, much like what the West did with Japan 60 years earlier. They would have to do the bulk of the listening, obviously, but perhaps they can finally become viable trading partners, valuable military allies, and – perhaps – friends.

    • un

      if you want to be allies with iran, you should first understand what iran stands for, not what clueless idiots like the author of this article thinks that iran stands for. remember, iran has never attacked u.s. unless it was strategically in their national interest, like the lebanese barracks bombings.

      iran and usa should come to agreements on the following common terms if there is to be peace. iran wants it’s sphere of influence to be recognized by the united states, in both geographies inhabited by other iranic peoples, such as kurdistan, afghanistan, tajikistan etc. and in shia majority countries such as iraq, bahrain etc. u.s. refuses to acknowledge this because two of it’s masters in the region, saudi arabia and israel aren’t at all happy about a powerful iran that wields such economic and military influence. u.s. itself also has reservations about an independent country which might become too powerful for their liking. this decision is not one that will be made by iran, the natural progression of iran in the region has always been one of dominance for thousands of years. the decision is to be made by united states on who to ally with, the parasitic ultra right wing zionists, the backstabbing saudi royal family or the nation of iran.

      the issue of iranian nuclear program fits right into this equation. iran wants to develop nuclear weapons capability knowing full well this gives them a bargaining chip in negotiations about regional dominance and economic sanctions. iran will not give up on this bargaining chip by actually building nukes for the sake of building nukes. unlike the majority of the armchair generals, u.s. intelligence officials are fully aware of this fact and the fact that an aggression on iran might end up actually triggering and accelerating a rush to build nuclear weapons. a great disservice has been done to you by the politicians and media outlets of your country by hiding these obvious facts in plain sight, so as to cause people who claim to be rationalists to hold absolutely irrational and idiotic thoughts.

      -an aryan.

      • The issue here isn’t that Iran hasn’t attacked its enemies yet – they won’t do that; they know an attack would prompt the United States and Israel to render it mincemeat in a flash. It is that modern Shia Islam has an apocalyptic belief that destroying the Jews (represented by Israel) will bring the Twelfth Imam out of his suspended animation. Unlike the Sunnis, they believe he is the Mahdi who is destined to come and rule humankind under Islam for eternity. This metaphysical difference is why Iran is covertly expanding its Shia influence in Sunni lands, but the fact remains that they will bide their time until they can destroy Israel.

        Speaking of that country, I have a Jewish friend who reads up on Israeli domestic affairs. Among them is the growing issue of a large and politically powerful ultra-Orthodox Hasidic population who have bore children far above the national average on the expectation that the government would subsidize them. Not only has their high birth rate caused a major rift in a largely-secular Israel society which produces amazing scientific achievements, but the government’s rightful austerity measures against their reckless family growing has the Hasidics in a furor that they might actually have to (gasp!) work.

        However, it’s clear that you meant that the whole of Israel were “parasitic, right-wing Zionists”. Americans whose tax dollars subsidize Hamas’s amusement parks and malls know better than to believe that.

        • un

          “The issue here isn’t that Iran hasn’t attacked its enemies yet – they
          won’t do that; they know an attack would prompt the United States and
          Israel to render it mincemeat in a flash.”

          nonsense… we know full well that a barking dog doesn’t often bite as in the case of united states and israel. there is absolutely no way, as proven by previous military simulations that united states can secure the strait of hormuz. this is really bad news for the americunts since for every billion dollar of trade deficit as a result of oil imports, us loses 27000 permanent jobs. (DOE estimate) now, the most modest rise of 100$ in oil prices over the course of next year, which is the best case scenario provided by the americunt military means that u.s. will lose:

          13 million barrels / day x 365 = 4.745 billion barrels / year
          100 bucks increase over the course of one year, corresponds to 475 billion increase in trade deficit, ending up with 13 million more unemployed which will project a much bigger deficit in the budget and gdp in the future… and this is just the oil prices and not the cost of war itself. you want it? bring it on bitch.

          i will not respond to conspiracy theories about the 12th imam unless you can prove to me that this is what motivates these leaders. rhetoric and actual reasoning rarely match, unless you want them to match for your own political agenda. well, in that case i think the rest of the world should preemptively nuke united states into oblivion given the millions of evangelists who are calling for the end of iran for end times prophesy. who knows where they will stop, case closed.

          “Speaking of that country, I have a Jewish friend who reads up on Israeli domestic affairs.”

          i somehow figured that you would. israel is not an issue for iran. iran uses israel as a political wedge to garner support for it’s regional ambitions. we don’t give a fuck about jews, or christians for that matter. it’s a matter of national interest for us to become the country which forced israel’s hand into a peace settlement on the 1967 borders and right of return. this will provide for iran a great boost in perception among other muslims and will help iran’s soft power immensely. israel’s existence is not under any fucking threat and it will never be, because they have nuclear weapons and submarines to deliver them and as a nation which is far older than jews, we aryans have no intention of starting a war which will mean the end of our civilization, at the insignificant expense of destroying israel. you morons should stop buying into the crap your media is feeding you.

          “Americans whose tax dollars subsidize Hamas’s amusement parks and malls know better than to believe that.”

          another idiotic ignorant americunt comment. hamas is tied to egyptian muslim brotherhood, had they been tied to iran like hezbollah has been for the past 30 years, they would have been as much successful as driving the israelis out. don’t even confuse the two, for one is a formidable disciplined force that defeated israel twice, the other is an undisciplined bunch of angry militias.

      • The issue here isn’t that Iran hasn’t attacked its enemies yet – they won’t do that; they know an attack would prompt the United States and Israel to render it mincemeat in a flash. It is that modern Shia Islam has an apocalyptic belief that destroying the Jews (represented by Israel) will bring the Twelfth Imam out of his suspended animation. Unlike the Sunnis, they believe he is the Mahdi who is destined to come and rule humankind under Islam for eternity. This metaphysical difference is why Iran is covertly expanding its Shia influence in Sunni lands, but the fact remains that they will bide their time until they can destroy Israel.

        Speaking of that country, I have a Jewish friend who reads up on Israeli domestic affairs. Among them is the growing issue of a large and politically powerful ultra-Orthodox Hasidic population who have bore children far above the national average on the expectation that the government would subsidize them. Not only has their high birth rate caused a major rift in a largely-secular Israel society which produces amazing scientific achievements, but the government’s rightful austerity measures against their reckless family growing has the Hasidics in a furor that they might actually have to (gasp!) work.

        However, it’s clear that you meant that the whole of Israel were “parasitic, right-wing Zionists”. Americans whose tax dollars subsidize Hamas’s amusement parks and malls know better than to believe that.

      • George

        In reply to un—

                       un , listen up .   If you think for one moment that we Americans are worried about you raghead camel jockey dessert rat  7th century savage barbarian throwbacks  then you are living in a fantasy world.   You’re nothing but a f***ing troll coming onto our civil discussion forum with the intent of trying to get us riled up and to try to sabotage our discussion forum.  You can go f***yourself and the f***ing camel you rode on you lowlife scumbag ignorant hate-mongering vermin racist and mysogynist bigot. It isn’t atheists that are going around the world preaching a takeover or engaging in violence , terrorism , mass murder or for that matter killing our women and daughters and calling that “honor” you brainwashed fool.  
                            It’s amazing how this website keeps attracting the stupid trolls.  Everywhere that Muslims go around the world , murder, mayhem ,violence , and chaos follows ——and that is a proven fact.   You talk about Muslims inventing algebra . Well , I have researched that and even that’s bullcrap considering that the Moors were using advanced mathematics (including algebra) many tens of thousands of years ago and Islam is only around 1400 years old while Christianity is around two thousand years old.   Even that number isn’t correct because Christianity did not start at the birth or death of the alleged Jesus.
                    Why would Iran need a nuclear facility when there is no advanced infrastructure in Iran ?  There is no manufacturing industry there. Anyone with one single brain cell in their head knows that  President AhminaNUTJOB wants to build a nuclear weapon with the first intent to use against  Israel. He even declard that he wants israel wiped out and refuses to accept israe’s right to exist. Israel has nuclear weapons and they are not going to allow themselves to be victims of a genocidal act like they endured under Hitler again.
        Your book the Quran teaches not to take  Jews,  Christians or non-believers for friends and yet you have the unmitigated gall to call us bigots.  If a religion is good , then it can stand on it’s own merits and would not need to force itself on people by the threat of violence , torture , death or intimidation.   Everywhere Muslims go it’s always murder , murder, murder, murder,  and destruction. What have you all produced in the way of industry or to advance society in the world lately ?       NOTHING    !!!!!!    You live to kill. You live to hate. You live to torture . You live to destroy  , etc. and this is what you call a peaceful religion. You badmouth and denigrate other beliefs with impunity and have no qualms whatsoever of insulting other’s people’s belief systems but you sure the  f**k  can’t take any criticism yourselves.
                                America already has 2 carrier groups headed for the Gulf of Hormuz as well as a Russian  carrier and their is talk that  British and  French carriers  will follow suit.   If Iran were to attack America with a nuclear strike then you towel-heads will get a taste of the wrath of America  when America retaliates in kind in self defense.  One of our ICBM’s could turn the entire Middle East into a giant crater so I suggest you camel riding ragheads over there don’t f**k with America .  Japan learned their lesson the hard way after they attackled us at Pearl Harbor and then President Truman retaliated with a nuke attack upon Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  
                              I don’t like war and I do not wish harm upon any innocent peace loving people  regardless of race, creed, color, gender, class status or nation of origin. Your letter has a threatening tone and I take serious offense to that in itself . No one on this website ( staff or commentors ) has ever threatened anyone and we are NOT about to start now.   Jillian Becker is simply presenting to the public view news events that the mainstream media has chosen to censor and people want to block her message because the truth hurts .   Believe it or not , I have Muslim friends and while I do not embrace their beliefs , these specific individuals who are indeed friends of mine  are individuals who I would defend by risking my life if necessary. You are the bigot—-not us.  I agree with Liz  , you pompous a**hole ,  you didn’t come upon this website to fit in with the discussion forum but rather to sabotage the  civil discourse.   So if you think that Iran will attack America and get away with it , then those virgins that you seek so much wiill be granted by the USA military.   I want true peace around the world with ALL nations and all people. You refer to the Jews as parasitic zionists which proves that you are nothing but an anti-semitic bigot yourself.    
                            I’ve said this before and I will repeat it again ——–I personally have friends who are Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus,  Wiccans, Scientologists , etc etc etc and even though I do NOT embrace their beliefs they treat me with respect and I in turn treat them with respect and that’s the way it should be. So  while you’re at home saluting your pictures of Hitler and Osama  , I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror to see the true face of hatred, bigotry and intollerance.     Furthermore you can go f*** yourself and go stick your head up a camel’s ASS and shut the f*** up dammit !!!!  Get with the program and try being civil for a change . You must live a very miserable life with all that hatred in you. It’s sickening and pathetic.    Actually , I’m wasting my time and effort even responding to you as I may as well be talking to a brick wall.                  Semper Fi !!!!!

        • un

          “If you think for one moment that
          we Americans are worried about you raghead camel jockey dessert rat  7th
          century savage barbarian throwbacks  then you are living in a fantasy
          world.”

          oh what’s been stopping you for the last 30 years throughout which we have undermined your regional influence in each and every battle we waged against you. lebanon, we won. iraq, we won. afghanistan, we’re winning. put up or shut up already. i don’t give a fuck about being threatened by a member of a race whose ancestors lived in wooden huts and shat in the woods when mine built cities with waste water management systems. it’s not as a matter of pride that i say we’re superior to you, racially, it’s just a matter of historical fact. and we rode in chariots when you were chasing after the pigs you wanted to fuck on barefoot, you insignificant pest so it’s quite funny that you assume i ride a camel. well, i guess once you’re a pigfucker cracker always a pigfucker cracker making silly assumptions.

          “It’s amazing how this website keeps attracting the stupid trolls. 
          Everywhere that Muslims go around the world , murder, mayhem ,violence ,
          and chaos follows”

          only during the last century i have the two most obvious examples destroying your case: world war 1 and world war 2, both christian atrocities that outdo muslim ones by a factor of 100. so, you might want to check up on your maths skills as well as your historical knowledge.

          “One of our ICBM’s could turn the entire Middle East into a giant crater
          so I suggest you camel riding ragheads over there don’t f**k with
          America . ”

          and the reaction to the nuclear fallout in russia will make sure the same happens to you. funny how you ameritards really deserve your nicknames.

          “Japan learned their lesson the hard way after they attackled us at Pearl
          Harbor and then President Truman retaliated with a nuke attack upon
          Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  ”

          a christian supporting mass murder and accusing muslims of doing so. can you say hypocrisy, bitch?

          ” I don’t like war and I do not wish harm upon any innocent peace loving
          people  regardless of race, creed, color, gender, class status or nation
          of origin.”

          too bad the rest of your reply proves this to be a demonstrable lie.

          “Believe it or not , I have Muslim friends”

          you call them ragheads too? fuck you cracker. of course i don’t believe such an obviously false statement.

          “So if you think that Iran will attack America and get away with it ,
          then those virgins that you seek so much wiill be granted by the USA
          military. ”

          well, we’ve been waiting for the last 30 years. if you want to see your empire go bankrupt, give it a go.

          “You refer to the Jews as parasitic zionists which proves that you are nothing but an anti-semitic bigot yourself”

          i referred to the citizens of israel who are on the tits of germany and usa. israel was built by german taxpayer money and continued with american taxpayer money. this makes them parasites but it doesn’t make me an anti-semite.

          “So  while you’re at home saluting your pictures of Hitler and Osama”

          iranians saluting osama? are you ameritards this ignorant for real? osama and his wahabist cronies are our greatest enemies and they have committed hundreds of acts of terrorism targeting other muslims who disagree with their ideology. but i can’t say the same for your country whose money for saudi oil is used to finance these terrorists. go fuck yourself for making such a stupid remark and apologize to the next iranian you see for helping support terrorism on their people.

          ” Get with the program and try being civil for a change . You must live a very miserable life with all that hatred in you.”

          well, at least i appreciate irony when i see it. 🙂

  • Liz

    We can only hope.
    Interesting timing – precisely when we have an incompetent loser in charge of things.

    • Keith

      I wish he was incompetent. I believe that he is succeeding at what he wants to do and that “ain’t good”. 

      Ignoring trolls makes them go away. As much fun as I have had reading responses to “un” he grows old. Can’t really take anyone seriously when they don’t have a working “shift” key.