Fight for free speech 27

This video, published September 13, 2017, records the concluding part of a discussion between Mark Steyn and Jordan Peterson.

“Free speech is racism.”

That’s what the rising generation is taught to believe by the Left.

The video of the entire interchange, from which this is an extract of the closing minutes, may be found here.

Posted under education, Leftism, Race, Videos by Jillian Becker on Friday, February 16, 2018

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This post has 27 comments.

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  • Zerothruster

    Love these guys ! I second all the comments by Liz, Cogito and Don L.
    It’s a pity that these kinds of discussions have taken this long to come to the fore. Mark and Jordan suggest as much. Maybe its because I made my career in a university library, but I could have told people (and often did) that the radical left was a clear and present danger, and had to be vigorously opposed.
    There is a lot that a full transcript of this conversation could open up for expansion, but one of the things Jordan says about the late sixties transformation is a little inaccurate — where he suggests that the radicals who had been Marxists now became post-modernists, as if they had stopped being Marxists. I’m pretty sure some of you will have noticed that. Marxism is still very much alive in the academic culture of critical theory and so forth.

    • liz

      My impression is that he may have meant that the Marxists co-opted postmodernism in order to blend in with the popular ideas of the time.
      Either that or they came up with it themselves, for the sole purpose of using it as a vehicle for Marxism. Just as they’ve done with feminism, environmentalism, racism, civil rights – you name it.

      • Most to blame for the climate which readied America for political postmodernism is the “Frankfurt School”, (also known in Germany as “Cafe Marx”). Marcuse, Adorno, Horkheimer … (Postmodernism in architecture is another subject – though not unconnected.) Marcuse is the chief culprit who brought the distortions of the New Left to America and corrupted education particularly in the universities. The New Left distinguished itself from the old Left (no capital o) by abandoning the proletariat as the engine of revolution in favor of the Third World, “the wretched of the earth” (Frantz Fanon), the “unemployed and unemployable” (Marcuse), women, minorities, prisoners, criminals, insurrectionists etc. Derrida and co – what I call “the French pandemonium” most associated with postmodernism – were all Marxists. Many of them were members of the Communist Party. Political postmodernism is Marxist.

        “What was for me and for those of my generation who shared it during a whole lifetime, the experience of Marxism, the quasi paternal figure of Marx, the way it fought in us with other filiations, the reading of texts and the interpretation of a world in which the Marxist inheritance was — and still remains, and so it will remain — absolutely and thoroughly determinate.” – Jacques Derrida

        https://www.salon.com/2013/

        Marcuse and Derrida – two arch villains. Destroyers of American education.

        P.S. They called themselves the “Frankfurt School” because they were in opposition to the “Austrian School” of free market economists, chief among whom were – are – von Mises and Hayek.

      • Reply to Zerothruster. (Although Disqus insists that I am replying to liz, however hard I try to put it right.)

        Most to blame for the climate which readied America for political postmodernism is the “Frankfurt School”, (also known in Germany as “Cafe Marx”). Marcuse, Adorno, Horkheimer … (Postmodernism in architecture is another subject – though not unconnected.) Marcuse is the chief culprit who brought the distortions of the New Left to America and corrupted education particularly in the universities. The New Left distinguished itself from the old Left (no capital o) by abandoning the proletariat as the engine of revolution in favor of the Third World, “the wretched of the earth” (Frantz Fanon), the “unemployed and unemployable” (Marcuse), women, minorities, prisoners, criminals, insurrectionists etc. Derrida and co – what I call “the French pandemonium” most associated with postmodernism – were all Marxists. Many of them were members of the Communist Party. Political postmodernism is Marxist.

        “What was for me and for those of my generation who shared it during a whole lifetime, the experience of Marxism, the quasi paternal figure of Marx, the way it fought in us with other filiations, the reading of texts and the interpretation of a world in which the Marxist inheritance was — and still remains, and so it will remain — absolutely and thoroughly determinate.” – Jacques Derrida

        https://www.salon.com/2013/

        Marcuse and Derrida – two arch villains. Destroyers of American education.

        P.S. They called themselves the “Frankfurt School” because they were in opposition to the “Austrian School” of free market economists, chief among whom were – are – von Mises and Hayek.

    • I don’t think Peterson meant that postmodernism replaced Marxism. I’m sure he meant that the revisionist version of Marxism, postmodernism, entranced these radicals. See my reply to your next comment.

      • Don L

        What is never ever not amazing is that all things Marx have been discredited, totally refuted, shown to be false, quashed and in all manner and fashion flushed … even acknowledged by socialist economists … yet Marx is still foisted as valid. Amazing how successful the Frankfurters (couldn’t resist) have been in ingraining ‘fake’ premises as truth: Feel-to-Should replaces Thinking & IS.

        And, thanks for that new info!

        • liz

          Yes, its amazing how such discredited crap continues to survive.
          The only explanation that makes sense to me is that those who actually benefit from it – the evil Soroses of the world – just keep pouring their billions into propaganda, and they never run out of useful idiots who buy it all, hook, line, and sinker.

          • Jeanne

            Liz, there are just so many younger people who not only want to believe that Communism works, but seem to absolutely need it to work. And..they will hear no derogatory comments about its possibilities to make their life and everyone’s life so much easier and better and more fair. Not to mention, environmentally perfect. I have debated until I was blue in the fingers and to no avail, not a dent in their rabid belief system. I bet everyone here has done something similar and finally given up while shaking heads in disbelief.

            • Don L

              An excerpt from “Why Austriam Economics Matters”; a trifold pamphlet written by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.:
              “Pretend you know nothing about the market, and ask yourself this question: how can society’s entire deposit of scarce physical and intellectual resources be assembled so as to minimize cost; make use of the talents of every individual; provide for the needs and tastes of every consumer; encourage technical innovation, creativity, and social development; and do all this in a way that can be sustained?”

              Is this not the question? Do not all rational people seek the answer to this? What is the best way? And, it IS hard to convince someone that the answer Is Free-Market Capitalism (FMC) when evrything they have ever been told is a lie – FMC does not exist. Yes, it is a ‘market’ economy … just not one created by humans, but one designed by career-politicians according to stooge’s calling themselves economists when in fact they are merely government central planners.

              If one doesn’t know what Free-Market Capitalism IS, one can be convinced it is the economic system of the united States of America when it ISN’T; and, it ISN’T!

              If one doesn’t know what Free-Market Capitalism IS, one can be made to believe it is the source of all manner of social injusticeand economic tragedy in the united States of America when it ISN’T; and, it ISN’T!

              To see if someone actually knows anything about the economy merely ask them what centralized fractional reserve banking is. If they don’t know what it is or does, they are stooges of the left. As I oft say: they are Lulled, Gulled & Dulled. If they don’t know how the economy ACTUALLY works, how do they know their proposals work, What if what they propose is the problem? How will they know?

              Centralized fractional reserve banking is the sole and legal economic policy of the united States of America. Made so on Dec 23rd, 1913. An attempt at long to short: Legalized by corrupt career-politicians, fractional reserve banking is a fraudulent scheme of earning interest on money that didn’t exist until it was loaned out. It is currency inflation through bank credit expansion. Being fraudulent, it fails – people lose money when the bank goes under and because the currency too has been debased. These disasters were only local to regional at worst. The bankers cartelized and decided they needed a coordinating body – so they caused failures and released a deceitful propaganda campaign to “nudge” opinion to favor a central bank: centralized fractional reserve banking. Free-Market Capitalism was outlawed and replaced by Centrally-Planned “Debtism”. IT IS THIS WHICH ALL RAIL AGAINST – AND DON”T KNOW IT EVEN EXISTS – YET BLAME FMC!
              OR, every economic downturn since our founding has had to do with politicians in league with fraudulent bankers and they keep the secret close to the chest … otherwise the kids would be blaming the right cause = fractional reserve banking!
              Cartel-bankers and career-politicians formed a cabal; during the evening of December 23rd, as America wrapped presents and decorated the tree, the progressive Woodrow Wilson and the Democrat-controlled Congress enacted the Federal Reserve Act. They created the Federal Reserve Bank – the FED. It’s sole and only purpose is to inflate the currency! IT IS THE MECHANISM BY WHICH THE RICH DO GET RICHER AT THE EXPENSE OF THE LOWEST ON THE ECONOMIC LADDER!!!
              The FED’s BS mission statement and all other noise supporting the FED is a lie/obfuscation. Just as the local/regional failure of reserve banking needed coordination. what ho the individual nation failures? A worldwide central bank to coordinate is the bankers’ current objective.
              QUICK INTRODUCTION TO AUSTRIAN ECONOMICS:

              “Why Austrian Economics Matters” by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr http://mises.org/sites/default/files/why_ae.pdf (Download and save; provided free for private use by The Ludwig von Mises Institute.)

              “What is Austrian Economics?” — The Ludwig von Mises Institute http://mises.org/sites/default/files/what%20is%20austrian%20economics.pdf (Download and save; provided free for private use by The Ludwig von Mises Institute.)

              “Economic Policy: Thoughts for Today and Tomorrow” by Ludwig von Mises — http://mises.org/library/economic-policy-thoughts-today-and-tomorrow (Download and save; provided free for private use by The Ludwig von Mises Institute.)

              “Liberty and Property” by Ludwig von Mises — http://mises.org/library/liberty-and-property (Download and save; provided free for private use by The Ludwig von Mises Institute.)

            • liz

              Thanks, Don! Lots of good info there.
              I was encouraged to note somewhere that alot of Trumps appointees (and himself) are Rand fans, which means maybe familiar with von Mises. That may not result in any action, but if they were actually serious about ending the FED, how far do you think they would get, and how would they do it?

            • Don L

              Ay, Ay, Ay (not nautical … think Mex oy vey) – I know the frmr TX Gov found Mises.

              Back during Reagan, Ron Paul got him to approve a return to gold commission. It was pablum and got nowhere. But return it must. Of course not overnight and money must forever be taken out of the hands of government.

              I have skimmed the writings on private and free money but have not delved as deeply as I did on the Business cycle and the FED. The plans do exist. Not the difficult. The stickler is not knowing just how bad the currency issue is because nobody is allowed to audit the FED. Ah, earlier, I didn’t point out that the FED is an ECTO-Constitutional PRIVATE Bank -psuedo gov’t lunacy – Whaaa?

              Again, banks work well when they do banking. The fractional reserve criminality must go. Damn, how do these econ tweaking idiots live with themselves knowing they are stealing from the least of us … then joining the fake fight against income inequality …GRRR!

              And, great works on privatizing roads, even lighthouses. Better and cheaper through competitive free-market capitalism; including providing sound money – the world will beat a path to a gold-backed dollar. Tax payers will have to be asked, not deceived and surprised. Hard to have wars of ego or adventurism when they are paid as you go; build bridges to nowhere, pay welfare to illegals, etc; How we forget: here we are, back at taxation without representation.

              (small booklet)
              “A Free-Market Monetary System” Friedrich A. Hayek — https://mises.org/library/free-market-monetary-system

              “Pillars of Prosperity: Free Markets, Honest Money, Private Property” Ron Paul — https://mises.org/library/pillars-prosperity-free-markets-honest-money-private-property

              “The Privatization of Roads and Highways” Walter Block — https://mises.org/library/privatization-roads-and-highways

            • liz

              Thanks for explaining, and for the links. In the first one, Hayek pretty much sums it up: “There is no hope of ever again having decent money”. Not when government knows it can gain power in the short term by manipulating it.

            • Don L

              Badambump – Polish for Rim Bam – Well Done and Brilliant!

            • liz

              Thanks! Rephrasing things helps my mind work better.
              It needs all the help it can get!

            • Jeanne

              Embellish? Perhaps you are merely thorough in your explanation…

            • Don L

              Dats da woid. Tanks babe! I can yooze all da help I can gets.

            • Jeanne

              Wow…thanks, Don. I didn’t know this much, but had some vague idea of it rattling around in bits and pieces in my brain. Now I do.

            • liz

              Sadly, yes. You can’t really blame them – they’ve been brainwashed.

      • Zerothruster

        Thanks, Jillian,
        I don’t think Peterson meant that either, as he must know better. I just thought it might be misunderstood by some in his audience who didn’t have background in it.

        I forgot to mention it in the earlier comment, but I also thought that what he said about it being ‘later than we think’ was an important part of his message. Liz was on the ball to point that out.

  • liz

    Great points made by both, here. Peterson is right, “we’re worse off than we think”, because the Left is so embedded in the system, and are just using the various “victim” groups as “human shields” to cover their real agenda.
    And Steyn’s point, that you don’t have a right to make an argument against the Left anymore. Free speech is now “hate speech” or “racist” unless it supports the leftist viewpoint.

  • Cogito

    Wonderful to see these two stalwart defenders of Western Civilization unapologetically speak their minds.

  • Don L

    LOL, I had not watched this video before I commented on the prior “The Muslim Plan” TAC article. That comment, ditto.

    Lulled. Gulled & Dulled: White youth, especially males, now know they are evil. No discussion is necessary or allowed.

    • Zerothruster

      “over 50 years ago”
      So you were fairly early days Vietnam PBR Mk II personnel?

      • Don L

        Specifically:, I was on a fleet tug – shallow draft, Mekong Delta, we acted as the tender, stores and sometimes taxi for the river boats and the SOG groups on their barges. Indeed we carried a few SOG guys and radio jamming crew on special barracks welded on our fantail. I went over in March ’65 – fun times (did 3 tours) – actually, it was not too unlike McHale’s Navy … most of the time.

        In between jungle visits, we operated to block, sink by ramming if possible, a USSR trawler in the Tonkin Gulf interrupting oiling and flight ops for the carriers. Almost got him. We were actually written up in a Newsweek story about this once – so much for secret op! LOL – read it while we were still on station.

      • Don L

        Another thought:

        I got close enough to it to get bennies, but —

        Hand Salute to the guys, all branches, that did the real work and to those that didn’t get home.

        I got out before the hate the returnees became fashionable. And, I don’t know if getting hated is worse than being ignored … The Korean War Vets never ever get a mention — 250K chinese coming atcha — they didn’t forget the cold either. Just a thought.

        • liz

          Thank you for serving, Don!

          • Don L

            Aw Shucks, Liz … I’m currently in negotiations with the DOD to give me medals I want: I want to receive them; they don’t want to give them to me. We’re negotiating. Rim Bam

            Thanks