Islam and “Islamism” 28

Robert Spencer confirms our understanding that there is no distinction in reality between the Islam of those who act to bring about the destruction of Western civilization, and the Islam of 1.2 billion Muslims (or 1.4 billion – estimates vary), most of whom do not noticeably act to bring about the same end.

He writes  at Jihad Watch:

The term “Islamist” is in common use to refer to Muslim individuals and organizations that adhere to Islamic law’s political aspects (most notably its denial of any legitimacy of a separation between religion and the state) and consequently most fiercely oppose America, Israel and the West in general. The implication is that Islam itself, in its authentic form, has no requisite political aspect, and no incompatibility with Western values or democratic government.

The problem with this is that it is a Western, artificial distinction, imposed by non-Muslims upon the Islamic world and lacking any real substance with reference to Islamic law as it has always been formulated by the Sunni and Shi’ite madhahib (schools of jurisprudence). Islam has always been political, and the union of religion and the state has always been essential to its political program; the idea that all this can and should be separated from Islam proper is the wishful thinking of Western analysts who do not wish to face the implications of the fact that these ideas represent mainstream Islamic thinking.

In line with this, I recently received this email from a Jihad Watch reader in Canada:

“A conversation with several friends on Facebook erupted into something quite extraordinary. An 18 year old Muslim student, from Western University and born in Mississauga had this to say about the distinction between Islam and Islamism:

‘case and point on why you dont understand Islam. No one makes this distinction [between Islam and Islamism] other then the Western world, for the sake of having a tidy little system to classify everything. Our religion and political ideology are one. Furthermore, I really wouldnt use the term islamist or Islamism. Many muslims, including myself, find the term deeply offensive.'”

In other words, in Canada, there is an entire generation of Muslims who openly subscribe to ‘Islamism’ as indistinguishable from Islam.

And that should come as no surprise. Except to willfully blind non-Muslim analysts in the West.

Islam is an evil ideology. It has no good parts or aspects, and there’s nothing in it that can be “reinterpreted” to be good. It is primitive, ignorant, and cruel. It is savagery justified by superstition, a vile survivor from the Dark Ages.

One could dispense with both terms, Islam and Islamism. Muslims hate to be called “Muhammadans”, but as followers of Muhammad, that is a perfectly apt name for them. Their religion can correctly be called “Muhammadanism”.  The fact that they don’t want us to use the words to designate who they are, and the appalling creed they believe in, is no reason not to use them.

Posted under Canada, Commentary, Islam, jihad, Muslims by Jillian Becker on Monday, November 14, 2011

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This post has 28 comments.

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  • Anonymous

    The reason why liberals don’t criticize Islam and criticize Christianity is because liberals are scared of muslims. Make a piss christ, you might get christians being upset, but that’s it. Draw a picture of Mohammed, and you have thousands of muslims at least wanting to kill you, or supporting those who would kill you. It’s the fear factor.

  • JARB

    Apologies everyone. I thought I was visiting an Atheist Conservative UK site. Now I realize you lot are American your stupidity makes more sense.

    Nevermind

    NASCAR!!!
    FLAGS!!!

    U.S.A.
    U.S.A.

    • Liz

      Yes, now that we realize you are British, YOUR stupidity makes more sense.  But don’t listen to us.  Try Pat Condell, one of your own countrymen.  He’s got more brains – and common sense – in his little finger than you’ll have in a lifetime. 

      • Don L

        Very Good!!!  In his after-lifetime too!  LOL

  • Jillian Becker

    From time to time it’s necessary for us to state what we’re all about. 

    We are atheists. That is self-explanatory. We are conservatives in that our principles are those at the core of American conservatism: limited government, low taxes, strong defense, free market economics, individual liberty. 

    Liberty is our highest value. We oppose collectivism, which is serfdom. 

    Collectivist ideologies are  of two kinds: egalitarian and inegalitarian. Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Stalinism, Maoism are examples of the egalitarian. Nazism, Islam, the Catholicism of the Middle Ages are examples of the inegalitarian.

    One of our commenters on this article, Jarb, writes that it “would offend many practicing Muslims who have been raised in the faith from birth and know from their everyday life that what you believe to be true is in fact nothing but misinformed bigotry.” Substitute the word Maoists, or Nazis, for Muslims in that sentence, and it becomes clear that to offend is the least we must do and why. We intend not merely to offend but to shame every ideologue of those persuasions – by means of critical examination. Our pages are full of criticism of Catholicism, Calvinism, Judaism, Islam, and many etceteras. These are sets of ideas, and as such need to be examined and criticized. Their histories and the crimes committed in their name need to be exposed.     

    Our view of Islam is not prejudice, it is judgment. We have taken the trouble to inform ourselves. To be against subjugators, oppressors and mass murderers is not “bigotry”.  We quote Muslims who are regarded as authorities, sometimes showing them in videos expressing themselves directly. Islam’s defenders have the hospitality of our comment pages to explain why they like it.

    We never have and never would advocate the harming of any person except criminals or those who declare an intention to commit a crime. In such cases we expect the law – not a mob – to deal with them. Or if they are terrorists held, say, at Guantanamo Bay, we want them to be brought before a military tribunal and if found guilty, executed. 

    Islam should become as abominated as Nazism and Maoism generally are at least in the West. It deserves nothing better. That it calls itself a religion in no way exonerates or excuses it. In any case, we respect no religion, no belief in the supernatural, no orthodoxy, no dogma. 

    To discredit Islam, constant public criticism of it is absolutely necessary. That is why there must be no laws or resolutions forbidding it, by nation states or by the UN which is currently trying to achieve just that (with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s help). 

    Intolerance cannot be tolerated. Islam is intensely intolerant. No British or American conservative can be consistent in his conservatism if he/she urges tolerance of intolerant and enslaving creeds. 

    Islam has declared war on the non-Muslim world, a war begun 1400 years ago. It has become very hot of late. Since 9/11 there have been some 18,000 deadly terror attacks  carried out in the name of Islam (see our margin). Most of us can only fight the battle with words. Let’s not spare them.   

       

      

  • On atheist blogs I have been to that are infested with looney liberals this post would be called racist, as if Islam is a race of people and not a terrorist organization.

    Christians are wrong about virtually everything but they are correct to criticize atheists who attack Christianity but never attack Islam. In my opinion liberal atheists are equal to the idiot Muslims they suck up to.

    If Muslims who think they are moderate had any sense of decency they would have thrown out their violent cult on 9/11/2001.

    http://darwinkilledgod.blogspot.com/

    • Andrew M

      I’ll reply briefly with this video from Sam Harris.

  • Liz

    This is in reply to Jarb below:
    I don’t know what planet you’re from, but on this planet the muslims have openly declared war on the rest of us.  We stopped treating it as an “academic discussion” after 9/11, which if you’ve left your ivory tower lately you may have heard of.  If you want to talk about “hate filled rants”, listen to any muslim preacher, such as the fine specimen featured on the previous post!  So sorry to offend your hyper-sensitivity – you and every muslim can take your whiny crap and shove it.

    • Don L

      How un-lady like Liz…so good of you!  LOL.

  • Jarb

    I really am shocked at some of the bitterness in this article.

    I am not in anyway speaking for or against Islam, or any religion for that matter, however seeing the comments and the actual argument in the original post is sickening.

    I can 100% tolerate an academic, theological/philosophical discussion and debate on the nature of Islam (as I’m sure I could find on this site) however this reads as an arrogant know it all with no faults or tolerance for any differing view.

    It is a hate filled rant, which would offend many practicing Muslims who have been raised in the faith from birth and know from their everyday life that what you believe to be true is in fact nothing but misinformed bigotry.

    Also, the article seems to purposely ignore Muslims in high positions within British politics who do not want to destroy the west. It also ignores a lot of the voting population from the UK, who are indeed Muslim.

    Seeing the word conservative associated with this post make’s me sick to my stomach, and no doubt will be used as ammunition by those on the left who are determined to paint us all as fascists. 

    • Anonymous

      Islamm is just another of the world’s totally irrational creeds derived from those who revere the ancient so-called ‘prophet’ Abraham, the would-be child killer who heard voices instructing him to kill his son.
      If that craziness isn’t enough to dissuade you from religions revering so-called ‘prophets’, then nothing will bring you back to reason.
      No matter what faith you were raised in, until you are willing to question the nonsense that theists demand you believe, then you are doomed.  In your case, you are doomed in an unrepentant, unevolved, primitive misogynistic sewer beyond the comprehension of decent people.
      You really should be sick to your stomach, but the sickness should properly come from things closer to home.

    • Jillian Becker

      Jarb – 

      Nasty for you to feel sick. But as a feeling is not an argument, there’s nothing more to be said about it.  

      Please tell us what you understand the meaning of “fascism” to be. 

      Did you know that many Muslim women in Britain are prevented from casting their own votes by their menfolk, who fill in their own choice on postal vote forms in the women’s names?  

      By the middle of this century your Muslim voters in Britain will in all likelihood  impose sharia on you all. 

      Have you read – really read – the Koran? If not, please do. Then come back and tell us what you think of Islam.

    • Andrew M

      Jarb, anyone can see the discussion of this issue in the comments section of the site and realize that none of us are bigots. I point you to my discussion with Jillian, where we both discovered how much common ground we held with each other despite initial disagreement.

      More than any other political blog I have EVER visited on the Internet, TAC always has the most level-headed, reasonable, intelligent, unassuming, skeptical, insightful, and most of all respectful of all discussion forums following each of its articles. And rarely do I ever see an article which is closed for comments. We actually write *gasp!* paragraphs of discussion here – try going to the Daily Kos or Weasel Zippers and see if you get the same reception.

      Liberals enjoy setting up traps. We should get caught in them as much as possible and emerge unscathed, for they are not very good traps and it makes their blood boil. This is very fun to watch. And the more we keep doing this, the more we desensitize the most sensible liberals to their sacred cows. This eventually forces them to engage with us in reasonable discussion, understand our views, and discard their prejudices and all of their consequential follies.

      You acknowledge that it is disgusting that liberals carry water for Islam. Why shouldn’t we discuss it in the most acerbic language possible? Words have no meaning otherwise.

  • Don L

    The photo didn’t come thru on the first post.  Is anyone else having trouble seeing to type and with posting?  Or, is it just my Polish self?  LOL
     
     
    Sorry, it just won’t load the image.

    • Don L

      Make a fool of me…I do quite well by myself thank you very much! 

  • Don L

    Somebody sent me a story, it’s always in Texas, where a muslim famiy wanted to move in…they were unwelcome, but nobody was going to deny them their rights.  Just before the sale closed, however, they planted a pig…the family never moved in.

  • Andrew M

    The only reason I talk about Islam as a monolith is because Muslims themselves talk about Islam as a monolith. And it is a nasty, evil, mean, cruel, unforgiving monolith which is being exposed for the farce it is from without – and, increasingly, from within.

    Among all brain farts emanated from human minds, the Quran is surely the rankest. Not even the very few passages of it which can be construed as “good” even apply, thanks to Muhammad abrogating them all with words motivated by pure evil. Nowadays, all Islam has to offer is a terrible legal code called Shari’ah and a ceaseless war called Jihad against all non-Muslims and Muslims in name only. Ironically, the most common victims of Jihad are other Muslims who just “aren’t Muslim enough”.

    I try to tell my friends this to practically no avail. They actually buy the imam-spewed hogwash that Islam is a religion of peace. This Arabic speaker knows better.

    With all of this being said, I will contend one point and disagree with another. I disagree that there is zero redeeming qualities about Islam; there is but one – a pride for the culture; unfounded though it is, exists it still does. We here in the West seem to have trouble exhibiting that about our own culture, so in order to defend its integrity and defeat this enemy, we must be at least as proud of it as Muslims are proud of Islam, especially because we have so much more to actually celebrate.

    My contention is that we should be willing to offer those who have but a tenuous grasp on the faith, as well as marketable skills, to come here and prosper and deliver good, long lives for their children – but not without extreme caution. I’ve received flak for maintaining this view in the past, but if we are conservatives, we judge people by their individual merits and not their cultural or genetic characteristics.

    • Jillian Becker

      Andrew M – 

      Do Muslims have pride in their culture? What have they got to be proud of? More likely they are deeply envious of the West which has so spectacularly outstripped them. 

      Are the Muslim women of Afghanistan proud of Muslim culture? Are the Muslim slaves of other Muslims in Africa proud of Islamic culture? 

      Look how the Palestinians try to hijack the history of the Jews. 

      Remember how Muhammad claimed the mythologies of Judaism and Christianity. 

      Recall the vastly superior cultures the Muslims conquered and destroyed.

      Why do they need to lie so much if the truth makes them proud? 

      Surely, in the light of history, the fewer Muslims who immigrate into the West the better.   

      I do agree that too many Westerners despise their – our – glorious cultural heritage. Perhaps partly, some of them, because they fear being envied?

      • Don L

        Jillian,

        I truly enjoy and respect your mastery of the topics and your analysis!

        Lotsa new articles…you’ve been busy!

      • Andrew M

        Excellent reply as always, Jillian. You always encourage me to read between the lines. When I said that “Islam is proud”, I was thinking of all of those boastful clerics and imams who I have recently had the displeasure of viewing. Nevertheless, the article by Khaled Montaser and a dose of rational thought quickly dispelled this façade for me.

        I am still not one to judge individuals by the groups they belong to, no matter how strongly those groups identify them. Anything less makes us hardly better than Islam itself. Most Muslims are very ignorant of what actually constitutes their faith, and until they are exposed to the thoughts which only the West allows to roam free, they will forever remain the useful idiots of those who do understand Islam. Increasingly and bafflingly, many of these Understanders were born in the West, and they themselves abuse the freedoms they think none of use should be allowed to exert.

        As per Winston Churchill, “Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.” I implore you in turn to read The Religion of Peace’s statement on Muslims:

        http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Statement-on-Muslims.htm

        The fewer Muslims colonize the West, the better – Shari’ah states do not require a majority Muslim population to be established. Then again, where else do Muslims have to turn for their apostasy needs besides the West? Buddhism, Hinduism, and sub-Saharan Africa are certainly not providing them many answers in a language they can understand.

        Please do not construe my position for sympathy towards Islam or leftism. I am not naive about the threat of jihad, my home and body are Sharia-free zones, and tolerating intolerance is itself intolerance

        • Jillian Becker

          Yes, I’ve read the Religion of Peace statement. Excellent site. And I too am an individualist. And have always said  that it is the ideology that we must defeat, no person must be harmed (unless he/she has done harm). 

          Would-be apostates should turn to secularism. Better still, candid atheism. 

          Our views on all this are much the same. 

    • Liz

      The problem with judging any muslim “by their individual merits”, is that they have the huge DEmerit of their religion far outweighing any merits they may have as individuals.  Some of them may be nominal about their faith, but they and their children have the potential to be influenced by radicals in their own mosques.  And you can’t trust them because lying to “infidels” is part of their religion. The bottom line is, they are our enemies, and its insane to invite your enemies into your country. We’ve already seen the consequences of it.  I’m sure whoever trained the 9-11 jihadists to fly thought they were providing good people with “marketable skills”.

      • Don L

        This keeps happening…my reply to you wound up under Andrew’s comment…weirder & weirder.

      • Andrew M

        I essentially agree with you, Liz, that the faith of a Muslim is an incredible liability to whatever character attributes.

        While I posted in reply to Jillian at about equal length to the reply she gave me, I do want to mention a point which I failed to address in regards to her. I will never give Muslims special treatment. I will welcome them into my country, with all the necessary caution of an individual who has not assimilated to Western culture, then immediately proceed to assimilate them with pork roasts and drug-filled parties and drawings of Muhammad and my sincere thoughts on their religion – which might be news to them.

        Then I will encourage them to leave Islam.

    • Don L

      Your on a roll Liz!

      And, 2 likes from Jillian!!!

    • Don L

      Andrew M,

      I won’t pile on…the ladies are correct though.

      • Andrew M

        I can handle the load, Don. Pile it on. 😉

        • Don L

          I know you can buddy!  Later.